PHIL O Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Any and all opinions wanted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 i was in the same boat. i compromised and got the HK430, Harman Kardon 430. Since that recommendation from HDBRbuilder, about 3-5 other Klipsch lovers have gotten one and LOVE it. It has the sound of a tube (with more bass than you would expect) with the price of a solid state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Phil O, You get bonus Green Stamps when you get to 100 posts. There is not a certain answer. Jumping into risky low value tube setup is risky. Middle of the road SS sounds really harsh at times. I have not listened to all of these BUT they are suggestions to investigate if the meet your needs. SS --- Creek Rega Monarchy Rotel(new Euro integrated) Tube ---- Vintage Jolida Nohr AES PWM --- Waltham Integration IMPORTANT: You are buying a design concept(with the benifits and limitations that come along with it) as well as the manufacturer. Unless you have a ton of ducats as a wise man once said....do your research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHIL O Posted January 15, 2003 Author Share Posted January 15, 2003 What about the HK 730? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 I can't give you specifics. I drive Forte II, Quartets, and home made three way horns with a variety of Jap amps, in one form or other. Two are vintage receivers from the 1970s. Low power. One is modern, low power, mini-system from Sony (very good, but the shoe box speakers which came with it were 4 ohms, so Sony might have taken a look at that issue). I'm also experimenting with a very cheap Aiwa K-Mart system. There I'm using some RS line transformers as autotransformers to keep the load reasonable. My suspicion is that some high power SS amps have a lot of distortion when putting out one milliwatt, and that is the level at which we often listen to the efficent Klipsch speakers. You see this in some testing of amps in graphs of distortion. The amount of distortion is very good at 1 to 10 or to 100 watts. Yet down below 1 watt, the distortion is climbing as the output goes down. This just shows that specs on amps are not valid for us, unless they are measured at very low power. Some day I'm gonna get the expensive test equipment to measure distortion in amps and let people know what I find. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Take HDBR builders advice, and get a H/K 430, i myself am looking for one! If you go with tubes, stay far away of 45wpc, this is a ton of power, TO MUCH! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Yea stay away from anything over 25 watts the heresy bass driver just distrorts over that. But at 15 watts there loud as heck !! A nice HH Scott 20 watt tube amp mates real well with the Heresy's and also EICO HF-81 does darn good also. As far a SS people have been reporting good results with the HK stuff but also Marantz is well known with there 70s gear. The choices are endless one thing about the heresy is its the most forgiving of the Heritage line up. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Craig, I tossed my Marantz 2225 from 1976 about 15 years ago. A stupid thing to do. Dual 510 turntable, empire cartridge, 2225 and an off brand pair of ported 3 ways is how I got started in HIFI. I would like to try one of those old low powered mid to early 70s SS receivers. Tuner worked nice too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 The Marantz are very warm and smooth but lack the detail and sound field of say a Scott or EICo but very pleasing to the ears just the same. One of my very good friends has a 2245 and he brought it over we used it on my Heresy speakers it was very nice. My pioneer SX-780 sounds nice with the heresy too !! I think just about any descent reciever and heresy sound good. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 The H/K 430 receiver is an excellent S/S match to Heresys...and it will bring out the absolute MOST the Heresy can possibly give in its bass bottom-end, too. Recently, I have heard reports that the H/K 430 is ALSO an excellent S/S match to LaScalas. I would be interested to know how it fares with Cornwalls, Belles, and K-horns. Its EXTREMELY conservatively-rated 25 WPC combined with its twin-powering and its excllent tuner section...and its great phono section...make for one helluva "bang-for-the-buck" package among the mid-70's receivers...one deal that may NOT be around for much longer, since it seems it is rapidly becoming "rediscovered" at the moment...and they tend to go for higher prices on ebay than ever before...lately. But...still...for under one Ben Franklin, it is hard to beat this deal! The H/K 730 is a more versatile receiver, but for Heresys one really doesn't need that extra wattage output(35WPC for the 730 as opposed to 25 WPC for the 430)...although the 730 features of a pre-amp-out/main-amp-in junction on its rear panel...along with TWO phono inputs, TWO aux inputs, and TWO full tape monitor circuits is a bit of a "versatility-plus" when compared to the single input/output offerings and the lack of a pre-amp/main amp bridge in these categories on the 430 model! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHIL O Posted January 16, 2003 Author Share Posted January 16, 2003 HDBR how do you think a H/K 430 or 730 would do with a pair of Fortes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 How do I think the H/K 430 would do with a pair of Fortes? I think it would perform just fine with them...If it does so well with the Heritage models, it outta do just as well with any other models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 HDBRbuilder Your statement is a little strong in its finality ! While I'm sure the H/K is a fine mate for the Heresy your making it sound like its the absolute best choice period mark and that is just not true !! The H/K 430 receiver is an excellent S/S match to Heresys...and it will bring out the absolute MOST the Heresy can possibly give in its bass bottom-end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horonzak Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 No matter if its tube or ss or chipmonks if you keep the distortion low the Heresy will sound great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 DISTORTION IS THE KEY! NO DISTORTION! MY 1975 YAMMY GOTS .009 THD! This ole dumpy tube amps I got has 1% at full power! WHAT JUNK! Buy lowest distortion measurements and be done with it. Negative Feedback Rulez! kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 I suppose that it depends on what you are looking for. The ultra-sensitivity of my big old Cornwalls kept me looking for something more in the way of purity that would let me enjoy the music. They seemed to be more revealing than even cone loudspeakers rated at 95 or 98dB/w/m. With horns of even super-sensitivity (95dB/w/m), this revealing nature is not as apparent. This may be due to their bounce at the upper end (5 to 7kHz). I think that the few tube components that I have seriously auditioned with big old horns, with the same equipment and in the same room, have all been wonderful matches, which rival expensive dream systems in may respects. I have listened to dozens of cone loudspeakers with a few different tube amplifiers and there is a nice quality to the combination. Many of my friends in fact, prefer these qualities (and smaller loudspeakers) to the 40s fashion of big old horns with flea-powered amplifiers. I havent heard the HK receivers, though I do have some older ones. They sound good, especially for the price (one was only $5 at a flea market) but not as good as delicate tubes on big old horns. All tubes will have higher THD values than most SS amplifiers. This is immaterial since the tube THD is not the same as the SS THD. The theory is that tube THD actually sounds good because it resembles the same distortion that natural instruments make. Therefore, a tube amplifier with an astounding 5% THD can actually sound better than an SS amplifier with less than 1%. Once again, tube watts aint SS watts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castironandtubes Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 When I bought my Heresys I was using a Marantz 7t (1968) with a Marantz 300 DC (1978), and I thought they sounded pretty good, although obviously 150wpc was extreme overkill - I usually had the gain knobs a little under half. I am now using an Eico HF-85 pre and Decware Zen SET amp (both tubes). I have tried various combinations of each although I sold the 300 DC. For me it's all tubes and the heresys sound much better. With the SS the sound was quite a bit harsher in comparison, although I didn't realize it untill I got the tubes. Maybe it's all in my brain but the balance between the two seems better, like a good match. The 7t with the Zen sounds pretty good, a great deal of clarity, but it still doesn't do it for me like the Eico does. It depends what you're into, the type of sound with tubes is quite different, my point is that it was a big difference with my heresys so if you have the opportunity check out each before buying. BTW, tubes are generally cheaper than SS, my HF-85 was $112, The 7t was $285. My 300 DC paid for the Zen AND the Heresys. Just my input. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 How much do you want to spend? Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hardy Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Tubes... a nice 2A3 SET is the way to go. 3.5 watts will be about right (based on my experience with Cornies). An "average" ss amp (mid-1970's, 50 wpc is what I am thinking of here) will often bring out the worst in the Heresies or Cornwalls and give that shrillness that Klipsch-phobes tout. I must admit that I've never heard Heresies on an HK430, nor have I ever gotten up enough gumption to try one of my old Yamahas on the Cornwalls. Just my opinions, mind you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 NOS(Craig)....I didn't notice that I said the HK430 was the BEST choice, just that it is an excellent S/S choice...but I stand by my statement about its being able to bring out the MOST of the bass-bottom-end the Heresys have to offer...even though there are likely others that can ALSO bring out the MOST the heresys can offer in their bottom end. I think you try to read more into what I say about the HK 430 than is really there...lighten up a bit...LOL! And...for your OWN information...give an H/K 430/Heresy combo a listen...maybe you will see what the rest of us are all talking about! I don't care if you trust MY ears....but don't you agree that maybe you should at least give the combo an open-minded listen before you make any comments? BTW...when you finally DO give the combo a listen...remember I told you this: "SURPRISE!!!!" One other point I will make YET AGAIN to the die-hard tube-lovers. I like the tube sound...and intend to eventually invest in a tube stereo set-up. But it really gets OLD that whenever I mention the H/K 430 I get BLASTED by you folks...and what makes it even MORE ridiculous is that NONE of you have even HEARD the H/K 430 yet...by your OWN ADMISSIONS....yet you still BLAST AWAY at me? I am NOT comparing the H/K 430 to any of the other H/K models from other H/K series...nor am I making blanket statements about S/S rigs from its era...I am ONLY telling what I know about one particular model...the H/K 430!...NOT Yamaha...NOT Marantz...not anything else!!! I have never...NOT ONCE blasted ANY of your tube equipment...no matter what kinda tubes you love...so can't you folks give me the same benefit of the doubt that I give to you when you spout off about this and that being so much superior to this and that?...at least until you HAVE a justifiable opinion gleaned from a listening experience with an H/K 430?? Is it too much to ask? Is nobody welcome to give an EXPERIENCE-BASED opinion on a piece of gear in this 2-chennel section unless it is a tube model you folks are familiar with? Is this portion of the forum closed to anything but tube discussions??????????? Do we all have to have overflowing bank accounts to be welcome in this 2-channel section??? Is there any room for us poverty-Klipsch-lovers who just want to get great sound for a minimal investment...an investment that allows us to get a great tuner, pre-amp, and amp for less cash outlay than many of you tube folks pay for a matched pair of NOS tubes alone?? Is there some crime in me telling others how to get a great bang for the buck item at that cost or less...that will give them great listening pleasure until their wallets fatten-up a bit later on? You guys need to realize that is what I am trying to do and lighten up a bit!! Nobody is trying to "dethrone" you folks...not at all!! Remember this....it is NOT only ME who likes the H/K 430....just look anywhere in any vintage audio section at the comments made about it...then give it a listen yourself...but remember this when you DO give it a listen: "Toldya!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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