rivlinm Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) I have a strange setup I'm trying to accomplish, but am not 100% sure what I'm doing makes sense or is best. Please advise. Gear: Fisher 500c Yamaha RX-V371 Receiver Pioneer SX-V400 (not currently using, but maybe will as a preamp?) Niles DPS-1 amp switcher 2x Heresy II 1x Palladium P312w Sub Sources: AR XA turntable (for vinyl) Google Chromecast Audio (for music) Google Chromecast (for streaming video) I wish to use two amps and run a 2.1 set up in hopes of when I watch basic video/tv from the chromecast it will use the Yamaha receiver (and to save life on the tubes of the fisher when I just want noise in the background). But when I want high end quality music I'd like to use the DPS-1 to amp switch to the Fisher. I don't know how best to mix in the Sub. I've read I can wire it to the Fisher 500c center channel, but don't know what that would look like. Also with the sub, do I have to pick to put it on the Fisher or the Yamaha? Is this where the Pioneer could help as a preamp? Edited February 28, 2023 by rivlinm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubo Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 I fried two receivers with a dsp 1, proceed with caution. I'm sure it's something I did wrong, but wish I never put it in circuit. the power supply has to be exact is my guess, or it arcs and fries the amp section. funny no label on the switch nor clear instruction in the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivlinm Posted March 2, 2023 Author Share Posted March 2, 2023 On 3/1/2023 at 7:59 AM, Bubo said: I fried two receivers with a dsp 1, proceed with caution. I'm sure it's something I did wrong, but wish I never put it in circuit. the power supply has to be exact is my guess, or it arcs and fries the amp section. funny no label on the switch nor clear instruction in the box. I've read all sorts of reviews and never encountered your feedback. Any chance you just got the polarity +/- wrong since it doesn't follow a nice pattern? Now you have me scared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubo Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 2 hours ago, rivlinm said: I've read all sorts of reviews and never encountered your feedback. Any chance you just got the polarity +/- wrong since it doesn't follow a nice pattern? Now you have me scared. Sure I did something wrong, probably overpowered transformer I opened both units to inspect the relays for the specs may have gotten it wrong may have fried one of the diodes, causing massive feedback into the amp frying the output transistors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 On 2/28/2023 at 1:18 PM, rivlinm said: I'd like to use the DPS-1 to amp switch to the Fisher. A switch between your tube amp and the speakers is not recommended. An unintended momentary open circuit while powered is bad for tubes. Safer to buy a second pair of speakers, if you have the funds and the space. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 I used a Niles DSP-1 to basically do what you are after for 10+ years with zero issue. I have a 7.1 Home Theater set up all with individual solid state amps for each channel. I use the same Left and Right for HT as my main music rig. It was my understanding, when purchasing the DSP-1, that it was built such that what @Khornukopia describes above could not happen. Can't remember the reason why, but like I said zero problem for many, many years using Solid State for movies and Tubes for Music. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam S. Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 OR — if you run 2 sets of speaker wires from each amp - the avr for when you are watching tv/movies, then from the fisher when listening to music. Banana plugs and works if you can get behind or tip or get behind the heresy’s. I do this with forte iii (tube amp connected to turntable and marantz AVR connected to tv). It’s not a huge deal with banana plugs. However, one caveat. I believe you MUST have a load on the tube amp before turning it on. (Speakers connected) I marked my speaker wires and double check before turning the tube amp on. only other option would be a 2-channel amp or integrated with a home theater bypass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivlinm Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 Everyone has me a bit worried with the DPS-1. Would the risk be negated if I ONLY changed the switch while all of the amps are powered off? I don't change often, but can happily power down the fisher and tv receiver to change the switch then power everything back up later when I want the other? Is there a way around only having one sub too? I could put on the AV receiver for movies/tv, but also want on the fisher i think. How would I connect a sub without speaker level inputs to the center channel of my fisher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Give this a look. I've used these also with great success. I think I actually have one or two still on hand, let me know if you are interested. https://www.ielectronics.com/products/niles-fg00240-spk1-speaker-level-a-b-switcher-12v-triggered It defaults to one set of inputs and the 12v trigger makes it switch over. Two amps one set of speakers. From memory I set my tube amp to the default (not triggered) and when I switched on the AVR it would fire its 12v trigger and flip it over. And just to be extra safe always made sure my tube amp was powered down before I ran the solid state stuff. It's basically what @Sam S.suggests but the Niles device is the one rooting around behind system swapping banana plugs. It's very slick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivlinm Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 2 hours ago, rplace said: Give this a look. I've used these also with great success. I think I actually have one or two still on hand, let me know if you are interested. https://www.ielectronics.com/products/niles-fg00240-spk1-speaker-level-a-b-switcher-12v-triggered It defaults to one set of inputs and the 12v trigger makes it switch over. Two amps one set of speakers. From memory I set my tube amp to the default (not triggered) and when I switched on the AVR it would fire its 12v trigger and flip it over. And just to be extra safe always made sure my tube amp was powered down before I ran the solid state stuff. It's basically what @Sam S.suggests but the Niles device is the one rooting around behind system swapping banana plugs. It's very slick. I feel that's a bit more expensive than what I want to do. But slick for sure. I'd love to know if I can just safely use the DPS-1 if all units are off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 are all the speaker loads connected with a common ground? Meaning neither tube or solid state amp/receiver is connected in a bridge configuration? If this is true all you need is a 4PDT switch and a couple dummy loads. The switch needs to be of sufficient rating to carry the speaker current. Can it be more elaborate? Of Course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivlinm Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 11 minutes ago, babadono said: are all the speaker loads connected with a common ground? Meaning neither tube or solid state amp/receiver is connected in a bridge configuration? If this is true all you need is a 4PDT switch and a couple dummy loads. The switch needs to be of sufficient rating to carry the speaker current. Can it be more elaborate? Of Course. I don't fully understand what you are asking. The TV/AV receiver are powered on one outlet. The fisher and a turntable are powered on a second outlet, I would run wires from each amp to the DPS-1 and then from the DPS-1 to the pair of Heresy speakers. Electricity and its terminology isn't my forte, hence why I'm being so cautious. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 1 hour ago, rivlinm said: I feel that's a bit more expensive than what I want to do. But slick for sure. I'd love to know if I can just safely use the DPS-1 if all units are off. They are not very expensive used. I don't believe they have been made for some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 OK sorry looking a little deeper into this it looks like it is a concern that a tube amp be without a load even for a few milliseconds while switching. So an additional "dummy load" switch would need to be incorporated. A procedure would need to be followed each and every time when switching....or if you can tolerate as you suggested turning off the amps before switching then so be it. This in and of itself is a"procedure" also and must be followed each and every time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 On 3/2/2023 at 9:50 AM, rplace said: I used a Niles DSP-1 to basically do what you are after for 10+ years with zero issue. It is good for me to learn from your experience with that device. I can't find a schematic during a quick search, but I do see pictures of somebody's switch that has resistors inside the case. The switching devices with resistors appear to make for a safe design. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivlinm Posted March 16, 2023 Author Share Posted March 16, 2023 One last question on this topic, more about the Fisher 500c. I'm just scared to do this as I'm unsure what could happen. Can I run from RCRDR Out on my 500c to my palladium sub a set of RCA cables? Is that output the same as a pre amp out? Or is it best to run from center channel speaker level and buy a converter to line level RCA? What converter would you suggest since its a mono channel needing to go to stereo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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