HDBRbuilder Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Ok...I have been asked to comment...so, like it or not...here goes. 1. C-style cabinets...means no riser between upper housing and bass bin...no big deal, though. 2. RE: his second pic...showing rear of the K-horn...note that the tail-piece has been ripped off of it...will HAVE TO BE REPLACED for proper function of the speaker...again no big deal...just have to have the dimensions for it, clean up surfaces where it was mounted, and install new ones. Will also have to install the screening between tailboard and bass bin body(has also been removed)...again, no big deal...can use typical tenting "no-see-um" screening for that...just staple it on. BUT...whenever I SEE THAT THINGS ARE MISSING OR HAVE BEEN TORN AWAY FROM A SPEAKER, it makes me want to see alot more DETAILED PICS of the speakers showing EVERYTHING...so that I can determine what else is gonna have to be repaired!!! Hint, Hint!! 3. No side grilles...no biggie...just have somebody who has k-horns take a sheet of butcher paper and make a rubbing of their side-grilles...and mail it to you...then you can make your own frames outta 3/8" baltic birch...you will also need the dimensions of the two triangular-shaped pieces of wood that are mounted to the side grilles in order to mount them up properly...again no big deal...but it is still something you will have to do to/for them when/if you get them!! 4. Tops are scratched, admittedly, but it depends on how bad the scratches are whether or not you can repair them easily or not...and the pics don't make that clear enough. 5. They have industrial woofers in them...and for home use you will want to replace those with K-33 woofers...the K-43 industrial woofers do not have as low a response curve...and you want the lower response curve for your bass bins...K-43's are designed to handle lots more power and be louder, but the K-33 is smoother and goes lower!! 6. I would want to see more pics...with more detail of the condition of the cabinets, and the drivers/tweeters...also more pics of the bass bins to determine if there are other things that have to be repaired...before making any purchase. These did NOT come with K-43 woofers, so sometime after they were made, the woofers were changed out!! I would want to see a pic of the INSIDE of the bass bin and the door area to it...to determine if anything there was changed/butchered/damaged over the years, too. IMHO, if the tailboards were ripped off the rear of the bass bins, then the users obviously did NOT have any idea how the bass bins actually functioned...because those tailboards are the REFLECTING SURFACE for the sound to be reflected FORWARD along the walls on either side of the k-horns instead of waves getting trapped and distorted BEHIND the speaker, until those distorted waves found a path forward!! 7. Finish was "WR"=walnut raw...but there has obviously been some kind of finish applied...and I would want to know what that finish WAS...so that I could determine how to go about refinishing them! Ed asked me to look at this thread, and you have my opinions...take em or leave em...LOL! In Latin we would say "caveat emptor" at this particular point...at least until many more pics were made available!! Moon, you not having corners...and having a short front wall is no big deal...for k-horns...that is what false corners are for!! And I will tell you all about how to build em if/when the time comes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Your bottom base you built... Is there anything in them, was that just for height? Nice looking setup there dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Builder, WOW and THANKS! It's amaizing you can conclude that from those three pictures. That sounds like a lot of work for someone that does not know what he is getting into... HOWEVER, if did purchase them and restored them according to your suggestions. How much could I turn around and sell them for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 The first pair of bottoms i built had triax horns in them but x-over problems resulted in there removal. This pair of bins are blank but i built them because the guy who sold me the k-horns to start with had a pair of stands made and carpeted. I noticed a difference when they were up higher but i couldnt stand the bins he made so i made my own and modeled them after the belle design. I'll see if i can still find the article he gave me, it was a audio write up from way back about rising the horns up. What seems to happen in my set up is some nasty ss induced highs get to pass over your head when seated. This will soon be fixed by my newly aquired tube gear. Plus these horns are coming out of this room and will stand alone in another room strickly in two channel mode with the tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Moon, Well...the seller said the woofers were K-43 models...and those didn't even arrive on the scene til the mid 70's for the industrial line...and his k-horns are much older than that! And the second pic showed the tailpiece was missing...along with the screening that attaches between the tailpiece and the bass bin body (to keep critters from nesting inside the bass bins). And the seller also admitted the side grilles are not there. For somebody who sometimes built em...and who saw a helluva lot of em over 7 years working there...it is pretty easy to spot these little things! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerSix Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Whooooaa!!! After looking at Dale's pictures I had no idea that K-Horns were that large. Those puppies are HUGE! Those speakers alone would exceed my maximum weight allowance for household goods during PCS moves. No wonder they're such an exotic-hard to find speaker. The WAF would never agree to it in 90% of the cases (at least the weefs I know). I can hear it now "You are going to put those where???" Anyway, beautiful speakers and great home theater set-up. Someone should start a HT thread where we can show and share each others toys at one consolidated locale. Aloha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Ok i wasnt asked and ill also step in! I posted a picture of my K-horns, the way they were the day i brought them home! 1980 Klipschorns commercial $930.00 Decorator designer OK now to the point, mine were stripped of everything, cosmetically, i had to make a top, side grills, bottom front trim, top side pieces, top grill cloth,and molding, after i got done i wouldnt swap these for anything! I was lucky, i had ALL the original drivers! Those Klipschorns, and i know the seller is also here on this thread, ill be honest, so listen! The woofers are NOT original, there is some scratches,and the rear plates are gone, the side grills are gone!! Im reality these are worth $1000.00, due to the repairs! I wouldnt pay more! My Klipschorns went up in value after i was done, completeing them, id say there worth $2,200.00! No never for sale, ill leave that up to the wife and kids after im gone LOL! OK ill step out now, thank you Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Finished picture, i will get better ones! Moon screw tubes,, LOL youll have time, dont make 2 choices at once LOL Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J M O N Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Yes, Khorns are big, but not quite as big as the ones shown in Dale's photos. He has his Khorns sitting on essentially another top section of the Khorn. Although they are big, because they fit snugly into a corner, they really don't take up that much room. That's right, relatively speaking, Khorns really don't take up that much room! Find some with a nice wood veneer, and the WAF can actually be pretty good. Believe me, I've experienced that. Beware though, when you are moving them inside your house, they will likely freak out. But once you get them in place, and had a few days to get used to them in the corners, they are very easy to live with. In regards to the age of the speakers, don't be concerned with how old they are. Some people on this forum actually think the best Khorns were those built in from mid-70's to early 80's, while there are others that prefer the very first models (those built in the 50's!). It seems that these particular Khorns were built in 1971. I would say that the biggest concern should be with their condition. HDBR spotted some very important deficiencies in these speakers that I didn't notice, such as the missing tailboard. The side grills are merely cosmetic and don't affect performance, but are something you may still want to replace. I would suggest as HDBR did that you get very good information on the condition of these speakers before buying. At $1500, they could still be a good purchase, but that will really depend on their overall condition and how much of the repairs you are capable of performing. It would be ideal if you could get yourself to audition some Khorns first, so that way you know what to expect. Yes, there already are some forum members that get together to share each other's systems. I have heard of the horn clubs in Chicago and S. California. There is also the Dallas/Fort Worth Klipsch forum gatherings that have been going on for about a year now. Unfortunately, I have only been able to attend one of those gatherings. But at this particular gathering, there were some forum members that were able to see and hear Khorns for the very first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Jim, JMon. Thanks guys... I am starting to feel hesitant afer reading several of your guys posts. The reason I was thinking about buying them is because I was considering referbing and selling them, but with the problems they seem to have, and my lack of knowledge on KHorns, I think I may be getting in over my head without having any kind of knowledge of them. If I was planning on keeping them, I would feel stronger about them. but as I have said a few times, I really don't have any good corners at all. None, NA DA unless I was to put them in my theater which I don't plan on changing from my reference speakers any time soon. Now belles? I would strongly consider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuber Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 I could be wrong but the tweeters don't look right for early 70s vintage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltop Posted January 26, 2003 Author Share Posted January 26, 2003 I understand your concerns and questions. The forum can be a scary place as everyone has an opinion that may not be exactly right. Anyway, I will give as much info as I know about these Klipschorns. All the components work correctly. These speakers were rarely used within the past 15 years. Most studio monitoring has switched to smaller "nearfield" speakers. The reason the cabinets got scratched up is because, when they were installed in the control room, they sit (behind grill cloth) upon a four foot high cabinet, (see my web site at www.hilltopstudio.com and look at studio A and notice the large speaker in the corners...the Klipschorns were behind that grill.) To be able to have the horns angle down toward the engineer, they had to be removed from the original cabinets. These horn cabinets were stored and moved around for years and became scuffed. I recently rejoined all the parts back to original when I took the speakers out of service. However the lower grills must have been discarded at some point. I really don't think these are hard to build...they are just frames with some grillcloth on it and it is designed to cover up the angled bass horn cabinet on the sides. Also the screening on back of the bass cabinet has NOT been removed. The speakers never really worked very hard at the studio as most of the type music recorded there is country, bluegrass, or southern gospel (No rock or rap stuff!) I do know that we replaced the original K-33 woofers with K-43 types sometime in the early 80s. The tweeters may have been replaced along the years also. I know that they are K-77M. I have heard these speakers literally shake the walls with low freq. The serial numbers should tell the vintage, but I don't think they are older than late 70s. (I thought 1977). The type AA crossovers were purchased by me and installed, because the studio had been Tri Amping with an electronic crossover. The reason that the "tailpiece" is missing (not ripped off) is because the engineers at the studio had crafted a thicker top and tailpiece that they thought made the speaker more efficient. I decided to remove this piece to get the cabinet back to stock condition. True the tailpiece needs to be put back on. Again, this is just a piece of plywood that can be cut out and screwed on...simple fix. The cabinets must have been finished in a walnut stain by someone else since the model number suggest that they were "walnut raw" (WR). Sorry, but this happened before my time knowing these speakers. As I said, The finish on the top is scratched and to be showpieces, they need to be refinished anyway. Also, the studio had painted the back of the bass horn cabinet black on one side. I believe this was for cosmetic reasons to keep the speaker from showing through the grill cloth frames in the studio. This paint is only on the rear (on one side) of the bass cabinet, and not visible on the front. These speakers are good mechanically. Only a little work on the grills, tailpiece, and finish will bring them back to original condition. I could do the work myself, but would have to charge more for the speakers. Perhaps all the components are not exactly stock for this paticular serial number, but they all are factory Klipschorn parts and work properly. I dont claim that these Klipschorns are like new. But they are overall in good shape and perform great and well worth the price of $1500.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 HILLTOP: Don't let our bark scare you off, theres no bite that goes along with it. By the way welcome to the forum. We tend to look out more for our own around here and sometimes loose sight that newbies have feelings as well, sorry no offence meant on my part. It's just MOON is olny 12 years old and we have to look out for him .lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Sorry here also, its just that i can get a full set never toyed with right now for 1,400.00! Ill behave, welcome to the BB. Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Hilltop, I was not referrring to anything negative when I stated the tailpieces were "ripped off"! What I meant is that they had to be ripped loose since they were originally GLUED and stapled OR nailed on...and in order to get them off you gotta RIP EM LOOSE!!...that glue holds very well...as you can see by the remnants of it and bits of the plywood remaining on the tetrahedron-shaped mounting points...pretty simple. As for the speakers being made in 1977...the serial numbers denote 1971...besides, it was sometime around 1977-1978 that the sides of the bass bin began to be made out of baltic birch instead of the fir plywood used on yours. Even the label style denotes manufacture before 1976(when I began working there). As for everything else I mentioned...I was asked to give my analysis and opinion, so I did. It in no way was intended to degrade your speakers, just to be an objective analysis based upon your verbal description and the pics you posted. I see correct mid drivers, crossovers, and (though not correct, not enough difference to make a difference) K77M tweeters. The replacement of the woofers to original spec K-33 models will cost the buyer around 200 bucks plus shipping for the pair, but the buyer can recoup at least some of that cost by selling the K-43 woofers. Also, the wood needed for the tailpieces and the side grilles can be cut out of one 5'x5' sheet of 3/8" or 1/2" thick baltic birch...around 45 bucks. Add some black spray paint(3 bucks) for the side grilles before adding the grille cloth(20 bucks?) to em....a bit of elbow grease...some labor time...and about 5 bucks of hardware(angle brackets and screws for the side grilles...a few staples for the grille cloth, some nails for mounting the triangular pieces to the side grilles and the tailpieces to the bass bins)...and some good titebond glue to secure these wood-to-wood parts...and then the refinishing process(depends on many things how much it costs) to correct the scratches and dings and put a nice topcoat on em...and the buyer will have a nice set of k-horns. My experience with c-style cabinets also means that there was NORMALLY NOT a front kickplate installed on this cabinet style, so the purchaser would be wise to install one, if for no other reason than to protect the speaker front from scratches from vacuums and such...and some walnut-veneered material for this could probably be ordered from Klipsch for a nominal cost...or even some dark brown or black 1/2" thick by 2" wide strips of Corian-type countertop material would suffice(what I WOULD recommend!!...and can probably be had for the asking at some cabinet or countertop fabrication shop, too!). It is up to the buyer whether he/she wants to go through all of this to get em back to original condition though. That is the only point I was trying to make here! Sorry if it made you angry!...that was NOT my intent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Andy You forgot 1 16 penny nail LOL inside joke! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 ---------------- On 1/26/2003 5:13:59 PM DALE WALKER wrote: It's just MOON is olny 12 years old and we have to look out for him .lol ---------------- Yeah... Thats righ. Dog! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 ---------------- On 1/26/2003 7:55:13 PM m00n wrote: ---------------- On 1/26/2003 5:13:59 PM DALE WALKER wrote: It's just MOON is olny 12 years old and we have to look out for him .lol ---------------- Yeah... Thats righ. Dog! ---------------- WOOOOFFFF !!!! 12 Years in dog years would be ? humm 84 !!!!! lol just pulling your old mooncrater dude . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltop Posted January 27, 2003 Author Share Posted January 27, 2003 Dale, Would you be so kind to fax me the dimensions of the lower grill frames (in the picture) including the triangle braces for the Klipschorns? It looks like I need to build these missing pieces. I bought some "Klipschorn" plans off EBAY but they were not useful for these grills. (I believe they were basically "Speakerlab" plans.)Also, while your at it, could you measure the "tailboard"? Thanks very much, Hilltop fax 615-865-5553 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuber Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Hilltop just passing along what I saw, as for HDBRbuilder's comment on the tailpiece I recently replaced one myself his description of the job is right on the money. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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