Mighty Favog Posted August 14, 2023 Author Share Posted August 14, 2023 31 minutes ago, babadono said: to clarify, I mean the connection that comes off the GFI that GOES TO THE NON FUNCTIONING outlet. If it goes to another outlet first check the connections there also. O.K., we found which circuit breaker the bad outlet is on and it's not the one the GFI is on. I even swapped out the socket again with another new one with the same result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 14, 2023 Share Posted August 14, 2023 So if I understand you correctly...you have an outlet on your kitchen counter that is not GFI protected. Once you solve the problem you are having I'd put a GFI outlet in there. So what else does the breaker that feeds the non functioning outlet also feed? and does that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter P. Posted August 14, 2023 Share Posted August 14, 2023 FYI; your photos of the voltmeter in the outlet show you've got your hot and neutral test leads backwards. While you may think it doesn't matter because it's AC, it's good practice to maintain proper polarity even when you think it doesn't matter. I know you said your outlet tester said the wiring was correct, but still... If the voltage is present but current isn't sufficient to drive appliances, I'd bet there's an outlet or fixture upstream from the "bad" outlet with a poor connection or a partially cut wire. Throw the affected circuit breaker and mark everything that is now dead. Then check each outlet and fixture for secure wire connections. One of the upstream outlets, switches, or fixtures could have gone bad. Is it possible critters have eaten through a wire, or one conductor has been partially cut? Is the wiring visible, perhaps in the basement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter P. Posted August 14, 2023 Share Posted August 14, 2023 Duplicate post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter P. Posted August 14, 2023 Share Posted August 14, 2023 Duplicate post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 Yea but the neon bulb tester says hot and neutral are NOT reversed. The only thing those testers don't check is for neutral and ground reversed because they can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted August 15, 2023 Author Share Posted August 15, 2023 All right, I'm under the assumption the next outlet upstream is on an adjoining wall. By itself, it tests fine and appliances work fine from it. The circuit tracer transmitter shows a bright steady green light to say it's working. I swapped in a new receptacle with that outlet anyway just in case something was wrong with the "output" to the, now, bad outlet. But nothing has changed. The same wall the bad outlet is on also has the electric service for our electric stove and three switches that controll the ceiling lights and ceiling fan. All of which are not on the same circuit as the bad outlet. In looking in the basement, the stove light service goes into a non-accessible crawl space so I can't even look there to check its condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 do you replace the circuit breaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted August 16, 2023 Author Share Posted August 16, 2023 Some continuity tests coming: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted August 16, 2023 Author Share Posted August 16, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 call an electrician , let him run new wiring , for the defective circuit , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 ah....why is there an open between ground and neutral? and 88 ohms ground to hot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted August 16, 2023 Author Share Posted August 16, 2023 I see the point but now I have to ask the (rhetorical) question; why did this happen now? I haven't done any work to the electric in this house in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Grammer Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 On 8/14/2023 at 4:48 PM, Mighty Favog said: This house has copper wiring. The outlet is non-switched. I'd change the breaker if I could tell which one it is. Need a 2nd person here 'cause I don't feel like running up the steps each time. The transmitter to my signal tracer has a faint flicker of the green LED instead of a bright green. That might be a clue. I suspect you have a capacitive connection. That is, either hot or neutral is not actually connected, but there is enough capacitance to allow a voltage to reach the outlet that will fool a normal DVM and other voltage testers. You need to test with a low-impedance AC voltmeter, the kind that will ignore such "phantom voltage." If you don't have one, borrow one. Electricians use them to avoid scenarios like this one. These kind of things often happen because there is a long run of cable to a remote switch, and the switch has been turned off. Since the switch is off, nothing works in that outlet, but with 50 feet or sometimes more of cable going to the switch, there is enough capacitance across the open switch to allow a normal high-impedance meter to show 120V, and even enough to fool other kinds of testers. Sometimes, even LED lights will work in such an outlet due to their low current draw. The outlet may be connected to a switch you are unaware of at a remote location, and it's been turned off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Grammer Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 5 hours ago, Mighty Favog said: The top picture shows that your ground is not bonded to the neutral. That needs to be corrected. Could be open ground (safety hazard) or open neutral (which would cause what you're describing). In fact, since the second pic shows 88 ohms between ground and hot, I'd say something is miswired re neutral and ground. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Grammer Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 On 8/14/2023 at 8:07 PM, babadono said: The only thing those testers don't check is for neutral and ground reversed because they can't. Bingo. I think that may be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 The Neutral wire and the ground wire are hooked to the same ground strip in the main breaker box. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealMarkDeneen Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 Create a dead short in the outlet, and see if the breaker opens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 17 minutes ago, RealMarkDeneen said: Create a dead short in the outlet, and see if the breaker opens. And if it don't let your house burn down I AM JOKING if you do this be freakin' careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Mighty Favog said: I see the point but now I have to ask the (rhetorical) question; why did this happen now? I haven't done any work to the electric in this house in years. corrosion? something came loose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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