Scott Grammer Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 Anyone have experience in comparing the sound quality of the Crites 3636 to the Klipsch T2A autoformer? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/215998-please-read-first-before-posting-in-technical-restoration-section/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Grammer Posted September 18, 2023 Author Share Posted September 18, 2023 28 minutes ago, wuzzzer said: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/215998-please-read-first-before-posting-in-technical-restoration-section/ Sorry if I stepped out of bounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff. Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 @Scott Grammer, Head on over to Audio Karma, there are fewer toes to step on over there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 nope you're not out of bounds at all , since the answer to your question does not favor Crites at all , the products they sell , may look the same , but that's about it , the inductance of the 3636 is not the same as a T2A , on the other hand , re-using old T2A's with klipsch capacitors does match klipsch specs , it's that easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Grammer Posted September 18, 2023 Author Share Posted September 18, 2023 34 minutes ago, OO1 said: nope you're not out of bounds at all , since the answer to your question does not favor Crites at all , the products they sell , may look the same , but that's about it , the inductance of the 3636 is not the same as a T2A , on the other hand , re-using old T2A's with klipsch capacitors does match klipsch specs , it's that easy I'd actually like to have a pair of T2A's, but they seem to be difficult to find. They work quite a treat controlling horn drivers. I have become convinced of that lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboxler Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 3 hours ago, Scott Grammer said: I'd actually like to have a pair of T2A's, but they seem to be difficult to find. They work quite a treat controlling horn drivers. I have become convinced of that lately. Send a PM to @Deang He may have a pair of new T2A's he could sell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 I stock T2A’s but I am limiting what I have left for repair/replace and new builds. The sound is different between the T2A and 3636 because the 3636 increases the working inductance in parallel with the driver (much larger core). This changes the slope below Fc. The T2A in parallel with the K-55-V creates a 12dB/octave midrange. I’ve learned that no one cares. Any change in sound constitutes an “upgrade”. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Grammer Posted September 19, 2023 Author Share Posted September 19, 2023 20 hours ago, Deang said: The sound is different between the T2A and 3636 because the 3636 increases the working inductance in parallel with the driver (much larger core). This changes the slope below Fc. The T2A in parallel with the K-55-V creates a 12dB/octave midrange. So then, the T2A is closer to being a tapped inductor than a transformer. Its primary inductance is too low to operate as a true transformer, and this relatively low inductance changes what appears (according to the schematic) to be a first-order crossover into a second-order one. That explains much. I had wondered, because a true transformer with a high enough primary inductance to draw little or no exciting current at the frequencies in question would double the apparent impedance of the midrange driver with every 3dB of output reduction, and do little else. Since the K-55-V is rated at 16 ohms, and the -6dB tap on the T2A is used, that would raise the apparent impedance to 64 ohms, which with a 4uF crossover cap would yield a slow, first-order crossover point of 620 Hz, right at the cutoff frequency of the horn. But if the T2A is acting as a parallel choke, that changes the matter entirely by raising both the crossover frequency and slope. Now I understand! Thanks for teaching me something I did not know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacek Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 7 hours ago, Scott Grammer said: So then, the T2A is closer to being a tapped inductor than a transformer. Both of them are autotransformers not transformers. And that's how autotransformer construction looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 Anyone know the inductance of the T2A? Perhaps someone can measure and post the number. You will need a decent inductance meter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboxler Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 2 hours ago, henry4841 said: Anyone know the inductance of the T2A? Perhaps someone can measure and post the number. You will need a decent inductance meter. The inductance of the entire T2A is not listed, so just multiply the inductance between Taps 0-3 by four to get 45.6mH. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Grammer Posted September 20, 2023 Author Share Posted September 20, 2023 13 hours ago, Bacek said: Both of them are autotransformers not transformers. And that's how autotransformer construction looks like. You are, of course, correct. I should have said "autoformer." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff. Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 @Scott Grammer, If you are looking for a pair of T2As, I might suggest checking flea bay for some used crossover boards on the cheap. They’re usually in pretty nice shape as they live inside a sealed box. Not only do you get your autoformers, but you also score the boards and barrier strip terminals, in addition to whatever else makes up that particular crossover. For example the 2.5mH woofer inductor. It is relatively easy to rework an “E” or “B” into something else that suits your goals. If a 12dB woofer filter is what you’re after, “E-2” and other boards using the 4mH woofer inductor come up often as well. If you’re patient you’ll probably get a pair of crossovers for $100 plus shipping. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Grammer Posted September 21, 2023 Author Share Posted September 21, 2023 1 hour ago, geoff. said: @Scott Grammer, If you are looking for a pair of T2As, I might suggest checking flea bay for some used crossover boards on the cheap. If you’re patient you’ll probably get a pair of crossovers for $100 plus shipping. From what I've seen of FleaBay prices for Klispch crossovers, I'd have to be REAAAAAALLLY patient to get a pair for $100. But If I do see that, I'm jumping on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 I would say more like $200. This isn’t bad. When I had T2A’s to sell, they were going for $88 a pair. https://www.ebay.com/itm/355012752434?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=7dbacnheruu&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=1fiukgbcsqo&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY https://www.ebay.com/itm/256220195121?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=qurAOMZ2SYK&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=1fiukgbcsqo&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY https://www.ebay.com/itm/145286598750?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=GivAp-udRVi&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=1fiukgbcsqo&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff. Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Maybe I'm just lucky... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff. Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 ...consistently 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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