Are They Khorns? 27 Years In Storage.

[KdAgain]

After living on a sailboat for 27 years and having to listen to small speakers (Ugh!)I have moved ashore and resurrected my old Khorns from storage. Almost sold them a few times, but wow am I glad now I didn't!!! Forgot how wonderful they sounded, and of course then I didn't have CD's as an input source. Just discovered this great site and want to thank you all for sharing such a tremendous amount of helpful, and sometimes entertaining information.

Actually I thought I had Khorns, but after reading many posts here and not being able to find a Klipsch name plate or any serial info I am wondering if I may have a pair that Klipsh allowed to be built under license in the 50s. They are an unmatched set and have the following comonents:

1. The Mahogany cabinet: Tweeter EV T35 SN A05454 w brown magnet, Squawker PWK K-55-V (9395) w heavy aluminum adaptor marked L8 to FG & wood horn marked Type K5-J 14 July 1958 S/N 154 By FG, woofer PWK K-33-P (2365) w 5 1/2" square magnet. X'Over Klipsch Type A.

2. Lighter wood w slight green tinge cabinet. Tweeter PWK K77 (1162) w grey magnet, Squawker PWK K-55-V (9394) w heavy aluminum adaptor (L8) to FG and wood horn marked K-5-J 1 June 1960 S/N 1733 by PG-TP, woofer PWK K-33-P (2371) w 5 1/2" Sq magnet, X'Over Klipsch Type A.

I purchased these used about 1970 and was told that some component upgrading had been done. The upper cabinets have a recessed section between the bottom of the horn section and the actual shelf that sits on top of the bass bin. Both cabinents have some very nice inlay work done across the top of the bass bin and in the recess mentioned above.

You all are giving me the bug to improve and update my system, which it sorely needs. I long ago parted with my Dynaco tube amps (big mistake) and am running with a couple of late 80s Sony SS integrated amps. It would seem that due to the crossovers age (probably bad caps), and the apparent improvemnts Al K has made, that updating my crossovers should be one of my first priorities.

Any comments, suggestions or enlightenment would be most appreciated.

Thanks Much, Rod

[CaptnBob]

It sounds as if you are the victim of a terrible hoax, and you need to ship the speakers to me at once.

Seriously, it's hard to tell without looking at the bass cabinets but the drivers certainly seem authentic. Klipsch used the T-35, sometimes putting his own name on it, like your grey one, or sometimes just a paper label, which, by this time, may have become unstuck and fallen off. The woofers and midrange drivers are almost certainly not original, but they should work just fine. I wouldn't worry about the differences in the horns themselves either.

The crossovers may be a problem, as sometimes the values have been known to shift as the components age, so you might want to get that checked - or just buy two of Al K's gems and be done with it.

If everything works - and hasn't been on the menu for any of the creatures inhabiting your storage facility - I'd clean up the speakers, put them in the corners and start looking for a nice little tube amp.

[WMcD]

Pictures of the bass bin, particularly, would be important to allow some identication by the real experts. I'm not one.

The component list is consistent with the era of the Klipschorn assembly which used the K-5 midrange, which did indeed have the cast matching section. This was before the change to the K-400 midrange.

The crossover you mention makes sense too.

All things considered, the working parts are, by their marking, Klipsch.

The only remaining issue may be whether the bass horn woodworking, actually came from the factory in Hope, at least at some time, for each unit.

As you point out, there were several licensees. However,in my limited knowledge, those licensees used their own driver and cross over components.

A major producer was Electro Voice. Looking at one article in Audio magazine, EV sold component parts for the home constructor, but they were branded EV. It is reasonable to believe their factory units make under the patent license for the bass unit also used EV branded parts. This is true even though Klipsch bought EV components and then rebranded them as "Klipsch".

Another licensee was Vita Vox of Canada. Again they used their own drivers, labeled as such. Now they are a collector item, in part, because of it.

There was at least one New York City based manufacturer. I don't know the components used.

One inference I reach is that it is unlikely that the orignal owner, or succession of owners, ripped out everything from a non Klipsch manufacturer, and replaced them. Of course such is possible and may be what you're concerned about.

The amount of work on the bass unit could signal that it is not from Hope. But not necessarily so. In the early days, Klipsch was selling some very stipped down bass horns with a K-5, inviting the user to do what they might think is necessary to make them pretty, or use raw.

I, myself, wouldn't get to concerned if the bass wood work came from elsewhere, as long as the joints are in good shape and the back chamber is well sealed.

Whether an "upgrade" is warranted requires some further consideration. Many people consider the K-5 midrange to be a classic. The A crossover is well liked. Others praise the older woofer, too.

Please send me your postal address via e mail or PM for an interesting article on the history of component parts.

Gil

[KdAgain]

Gil & Captn Bob,

Thanks for the replies. I have uploaded a photo of the rear view that may shed a little light on my K(?)horn. I have 4 other photos, including shots of inside the bass bin. The system only allowed me to upload one photo and I can't figure out how to combine them into one uploadable image - Seems that I have seen a strip of shots on this forum though. Would appreciate if someone could tell me how to send multiple photos.

I'm leaning towards building a set of ALK's, per his instructions, and then down the road perhaps build a tube amp. Eons ago in high school I built a few from scratch, although would probably consider a kit now. Any suggestions that aren't outrageously priced?

Gil, I'll send you my snail mail address - thanks a lot!

Rod

[KdAgain]

Gil & Captn Bob,

Thanks for the replies. I have uploaded a photo of the rear view that may shed a little light on my K(?)horn. I have 4 other photos, including shots of inside the bass bin. The system only allowed me to upload one photo and I can't figure out how to combine them into one uploadable image - Seems that I have seen a strip of shots on this forum though. Would appreciate if someone could tell me how to send multiple photos.

I'm leaning towards building a set of ALK's, per his instructions, and then down the road perhaps build a tube amp. Eons ago in high school I built a few from scratch, although would probably consider a kit now. Any suggestions that aren't outrageously priced?

Gil, I'll send you my snail mail address - thanks a lot!

Rod

[HDBRbuilder]

that sure looks like the "real deal" to me!

[WMcD]

Yeah, well, I have not seen anyone figure out how to do multiple attachments on this new bbs software either. Perhaps several photos could be combined using a photo editor.

I don't own K-Horns. I made a pair using the SpeakerLab plans. On the other hand, I've toured the Klipsch museum where there are several early examples. I didn't make notes though.

One thing that might have happened here is that the origninal owner bought a very stipped down version and did some extra work. On the other hand, there were a lot of variations coming out of the factory too.

Let's consider the following:

1) The bass horn is painted battleship gray. Some stained wood appears on ancellary pieces. The mounts for the side grill for example.

2) There is a stained stip of wood running along the side near the opening of the bass horn at the tail board. I have not noticed that on other units. I have a vague recall that some units had mesh over the opening at the tailboard (to keep out critters) and I wonder if this is part of a similar scheme. Alternately, someone may have thought the board needed some structural stiffening.

3) The top of the upper unit has been reinforced on the under side. I haven't noticed that on other units. Someone was worried about resonance.

4) There are two columns on either side of the midrange driver. These would also, prevent vibration. I might have seen this before at the museum.

5) The collar between the top and bottom looks a bit thicker than normal to me. But hard to tell.

6) The grill cloth looks '50 - '60 kithchy (sp?) in color. There is a lot of that in the museum.

7) The cover to the bass bin is not square, more like a "home plate". I believe that looks familiar. In later units, it was square. And it has a terminal block which looks familiar.

8) Notice the little cut out at the base of the grills to accomodate a baseboard at the wall. The real thing had those too.

9) Some of the wood looks like the veneer and varnish is suffering from age. That is typical of what I've seen too.

I point out the above to be picky. Someone may come forward and say any item is a mark of authenticity, or a modification. Again, in the early days people would buy the stripped item and tinker with them. My guess is that the bass unit is a factory unit even though the photos don't reveal construction details.

For what it is worth, I would lose any sleep over this unit as being a counterfeit, or by a licensee. It was probably just well tended by an expert.

Gil

[sunnysal]

HDBRbuilder would know best if that is a real one, it certainly looks like an early k-horn to me! congrats, tony

[KdAgain]

Thanks for the feedback folks - Im getting more encouraged that they are the real thing. I have posted several photos of them at http://www.geocities.com/kdagain2003/MyKlipschHorns.html

Hopefully we can then end the mystery for certain.

Rod

[JohnA]

They're real.

[HDBRbuilder]

When I worked there, I saw numerous older nicely veneered k-horns come in with battleship grey painted on the back of the bass bins. After all...it was pretty inexpensive paint in the 1950's...lots of it on surplus market! LOL! As for the trim running vertically at the rear of the bass bins...that was originally used to secure the screening that covered the rear openiong in the bass bin...often never painted. The vertical braces in the H/F section on either side of the midrange driver were standard on factory models. The "home-plate"-shaped woofer access door on the bass bin was standard for many years...later on they went to just a square panel...less work to make it. You haven't posted any good pics of the inlay/marquetry...etc on these...but that is no big deal...they never came from factory with inlays...but no reason why somebody couldn't have had that done at a later date...post-manufacture. The bracing under the uppermost panel of the top-housing could have been to strengthen that panel if it was ever cracked or damaged too...but it is non-standard for the factory model...could also have been used to provide anti-resonance or to straighten out a bow in that panel that occured post-manufacture, or as brace for something heavy sitting atop them...strange how people always want to put something on top of speakers!! Hell, I have seen solid marble or bronze sculptures placed atop k-horns before...the sculptures weighed as much as I do!! Go figure!!

[Randy Bey]

Rod,

don't go changing those babies till you have an idea of what they can do stock.

PWK said "If you don't like what's coming out, you won't like what's going in" and truer words were never spoken.

Do not under any circumstances replace your type A crossover. It was PWK's favorite.

Spend the money improving what feeds 'em first. Get a good amp, no big bruiser, just a simple, good amp, get the best source equipment you can find, and pay attention to the room you set it up in. The right size room with the right dimensions will make more difference than anything else you could hope to do otherwise.

[WMcD]

I'm struck that speakers are treated a bit like automobiles.

Some people want them absolutely stock and will restore them to factory condition.

Others want to modify and customize. The changes may or may not make them faster, or more pretty. It is, though, part of pride of ownership.

It's a guy thing.

Gil

[Randy Bey]

Gil,

I agree. I think if the Klipsch speakers made their crossovers harder to reach, no one would be considering changing it. (Note to Klipsch: seal squawker enclosure).

Tweaking a cheap pair of speakers is fun and sometimes great improvements can be made. More often, the change is simply a change, and whether for better or worse is in the ear of the beholder. Papa's pride comes into play "I did this!", or the thought process that "I spent $500, so I hear $5000 worth of change. Boy, do women ever deserve to mate with ME!".

Tweaking a multi thousand dollar speaker is close to insanity. OK, I resemble that remark, but my tweaks are all reversible and I spend mondo time fretting over whether the change is for the better or worse. I also ask for second ears opinions. Many of the tweaks I've made have been removed over time.

I would recommend to this newly rediscovered owner that he limit his tweaks to putting nickels on the corners of the speakers to enhance the stereo imaging, and similar, until he addresses what PWK said back in 1950, which is that the source needs the most attention.

[KdAgain]

Thanks a lot for all the feedback. I'm feeling much more confident that they are the real thing, although am still bewildered that there is not a serial number or other Klipsch identifying mark anywhere other than on the components.

Of course the most important thing is the sound - and it is wonderful!! But being a lifelong tinkerer and one who always likes to improve his stuff, I do get the urge to fiddle a bit. Being on a tight budget I realy appreciated Randys idea of placing nickles on the speaker corners to improve the stereo imaging. It worked! Much wider. But then I got really extravagent, and doubled my budget. (More money always improves the fidelity, right?) Tried dimes at each corner. Yes the imaging got even wider, but the sound became very 'Thin'. So back to the nickles for now.

I definitely plan to improve the "Source" in my system. After all the old adages of 'the chain is as strong as it's weakest link', and GIGO (garbage in, garbage out) are absolutes.

Rod

[jt1stcav]

Whadaya get if you place a dollar bill on the corner of each Khorn? Hope ya get at least your money's worth in imaging!

[blindman]

Dollar bills. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Since dollars are also known as "folding money" what could be more perfect for a speaker with a "folded horn"??!

I enjoyed the observation that the dimes made the soundstage sound "thinner" than the nickels.

Very logical...

[IndyKlipschFan]

Well you have the real deal.. so first off relax.

Second, I agree with many... listen to what you have first before you make any changes.. Sometimes, yes it is true, older is better. The old saying, "Because they just do not make em like they used too." (When that is a source of pride in workmanship, it is true.)

As in a cell phone or computer...well something say 10 yrs old is laughable.

My advice is this. Your speakers are the last section of the audio chain that make arguably the biggest impact to your ears.. Can you hear a difference in a 20,000 dollar amp verses a 10,000 one, maybe not? Can you experience and differentiate a dynamic creshendo between a k horn and a Bose "cube"? I hope so..LOL>

So enjoy what you have, and be glad you have one of the finest speakers made... ever. Klipsch Klipschorns.