Audible Nectar Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Since I stink at posting direct links on the board, just go to ebay item number 3008347939. Trust me, it's worth a look, just for the condition alone. I'm hooking this puppy up to my two main channels in my do it all system. I've always wanted to try a McIntosh with my Cornwalls, and I've noticed more McIntosh amps on the forum with reported great results - and my desire for a bit smoother amplification (currently using an Outlaw 750, with a Krell preamp). If I'm not impressed with it, I know I can sell it (for more than I paid, taboot). 200 hours on the unit?? I had to do it. Yeah, I know, what about tubes? This is going in the two main channels of my only system (HT), which is on 7 days a week for much of the day. I need low maintenance here - and Mac seems to be a "smooth" choice for SS. When I do the 2 channel system, I'll certainly be on here asking all of the pertinent questions about tubes. I'm looking at this as an experiment of sorts, which I anticipate will help my focus on choices for my 2 channel system. So, now that I'm goin' Mac, will I ever go back?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 You know how it is, you never know until you try it. I'm definitely interested in hearing what you think after you drop her in. Seems 'ole Kelly is the only one on the Forum who doesn't really care for them all that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 I for one, think it's one of the best SS setups you can find for your Cornwalls...I swear by mine, and have been totally satisfied with it(I had a big Mac MC7200 previously, and even though 200 WPC was overkill for my Klipsch...that amp was originally purchased for my Magnepans...and it didn't have the patended Autoformers, it still sounded sweet). My Cornwalls are completely transparent and dynamic with my 30 year old amp, and with a tube preamp combination, it'll only sweeten the package! As far as I'm concerned, you won't be dissatisfied...enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Check it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Pretty, huh? Imagine if it was a MC275...all them glowing tubes at night! If I ever trade up, it'll be a Mac tube amp for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted February 16, 2003 Author Share Posted February 16, 2003 WOW! Yours appears to be in the condition mine will be in. Looks very delicious Your comments on this amp was a major reason I went for this - I've heard too many good comments regarding the Mac/Klipsch combo to ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Man - Looks nice. At the moment, I am a Man without a Mc Amp. Been Mac for years... But that is another story..... The MC50 and the MC250 are both great amps. I have heard them side to side with a pair of MC60s (tube) and to me they sounded the same. I heard them on Khorns at a friends house. He wanted my opionion as he was tired of tube amps and found the SS 50s to sound just like his tube amps. I agreed, they sure did IMHO. Also for what its worth our own AL K uses a 250 for his Belle mains and a single 50 for his Belle center. From what I have heard the MC30 is the better sounding Mcintosh tube amp, compared to the MC40,60, 75 and 275. But that is what I have heard, I do not have first hand knowledge of this. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 I keep hearing references to the 'autoformers' when Mac's are discussed. What meaneth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Nice amp at a very nice price. What speakers are you using? leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted February 16, 2003 Author Share Posted February 16, 2003 j-malotky, that is VERY encouraging, especially coming from someone of your experience. The fact that you can compare these to tubes has me very hopeful that this will be a better match to my speakers - and ears. Leok, this will be hooked up to my Cornwall II's. Dean: The autoformers were explained to me this way in a review: "An autoformer simply means that the primary and secondary windings are partially shared. This improves coupling and reduces size. Transformer size is determined by the maximum power and the lowest frequency that it is required to produce without saturation." The amp has different taps for various speaker impedance loads, and the output is the same from all taps, in this case, 50 wpc (but these amps have been tested to peak at about 130 watts clean - Mac is very conservatively rated). I don't know all of the ins and outs of this, but the autoformer Macs don't increase wattage output with lower impedance speakers - you just tell it what impedance your speakers are by which terminals you use on the amp. Ii is also my understanding that the autoformer models by Mac sound more tubelike. Anyone else know more about the autoformers, with a better explanation than mine? BTW: The seller has another unit in similar condition - except for a broken speaker terminal (which he is currently replacing). If I like the first one, and and am satisfied with the condition of unit two after the repair, I'll have first dibs on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 ---------------- On 2/16/2003 4:36:27 PM dndphishin wrote: "BTW: The seller has another unit in similar condition - except for a broken speaker terminal (which he is currently replacing). If I like the first one, and and am satisfied with the condition of unit two after the repair, I'll have first dibs on it." ---------------- I'm no techno freak (no disrespect to those talented enough to be), so I couldn't explain the workings of the Autoformers any better than you already have, dndphishin. It is very tube-like to my ears as well. Before my two Macs, I had Carver's TFM-35x and M-400t "cube" amps...although they sounded very good, the McIntosh designs simply blow 'em away in every sense...tube-like warmth, with deep tight bass and smooth mids. The high frequencies are as natural and crisp without the sizzle some SS amps produce! I can believe that Mac SS amps do sound as good as tube amps, and that's a pretty bold statement to make! Wow, if you can get another MC250, go for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 ---------------- On 2/16/2003 4:36:27 PM dndphishin wrote: j-malotky, that is VERY encouraging, especially coming from someone of your experience. The fact that you can compare these to tubes has me very hopeful that this will be a better match to my speakers - and ears. ---------------- Thanks for the complement... Now remember that I am comparing the MC50 to the MC60 not the low wattage SET tube amps that most of the 2CH people here favor. In my emails to Kelly, he says the McIntosh tube amps don't sound as good as SET because McIntosh does not drive there tubes as compared to a SET. For the record, I love the sound of McIntosh, both the tube and SS gear sounds great with Heritage Klipsch. I would love the chance to compare McIntosh to a SET amp. If there is anybody in the Milwaukee area who has a pair that I could listen too, please email me. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 JM knows his Mac/Heritage combos very well. Even Roger Russell, former director of acoustic research at McIntosh (http://www.roger-russell.com/) could probably learn a thing or two from him. What a great comparo a vintage Mac tube amp and an SET would make. Hope you get the chance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted February 18, 2003 Author Share Posted February 18, 2003 "Now remember that I am comparing the MC50 to the MC60 not the low wattage SET tube amps that most of the 2CH people here favor. In my emails to Kelly, he says the McIntosh tube amps don't sound as good as SET because McIntosh does not drive there tubes as compared to a SET." Understood, j-malotky. I do not expect them to be as liquid as edster's Welbourne Moondog SET monos (which I have heard), but I do expect them to be much smoother than the current Outlaw SS amp. I am looking for tubish sound in a SS amp, with enough zip for HT uses. I think 50 watts per channel of Mac is about right for this particular application. If this was a true 2 channel application, SS would not be a consideration, but the concerns (and the corresponding opinions and solutions) seem best discussed here. Thanks for your indulgence.... I'll report my impressions when "amp one" arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted February 26, 2003 Author Share Posted February 26, 2003 Installation question, while the unit is in transit: What speaker terminal connectors work best for Macs? Since this is my first Mac, I figure it best to have the proper ends for this when it gets here. Are these just standard spades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 I think even the standard spade is too big for the terminal strip on the vintage Macs (I'm using bare wire). If I'm not mistaken (and I usually am), I recall somewhere else on this Forum not too long ago someone else asking this very same question. I think I read that DH Labs makes an "L" shaped lug made of a block of gold-plated brass or aluminum; its spade end fits within the confines of the individual terminal strip's screw. The verticle end is where the cable's wire is inserted and tightened with a small set screw inside the hole opening. Maybe PartsExpress.com has a similar spade lug to fit vintage Mac and Heritage gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted March 6, 2003 Author Share Posted March 6, 2003 OK, finally got the Mac yesterday. I lied. I said I was going to hook this up to the 2 HT channels. Since I found a set of '76 Cornwalls, I hooked up a 2 channel system as follows: Rega Planet > Mc 250 > Klipsch '76 Cornwalls - just using the gain controls on the Mac. To quote Dick Enberg, "OH MY" It was a late night setting it up, so not a lengthy listening session - but the difference was immediately evident. Can you say "smooooooooth"? I am, initially, very pleased. More comments coming once I spend more time with this setup.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Congratulations on getting your amp running on your Cornwalls! You gotta get a digicam bud, we want to see photos of those designer Corns and that new Mac!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 I bet that Mac is awesome and the price sure looked reasonable !! I have always said there are many paths to Audio heaven. I surely bet this is one of them. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 One thing that makes McIntosh amplifier designs very different from others is the use of output transformers. McIntosh calls them Autoformers because there is only one winding, so it really is not actually a transformer. With a conventional push-pull amplifier, the + leg and the - leg may not output exactly the same voltage on a waveform. So, when you drive the amplifier to its limits, the lower voltage leg will give out first, and the other leg can drive its extra voltage back into the leg that gave out. This can damage the amplifier. The use of the autoformer maintains absolute balance of the two legs. Secondly, regardless of how unstable the speaker load, the output transistors never see that instability when the autoformer is used. Two matched amplifiers with complimentary balanced circuitry operate in a PUSH-PULL configuration. Their outputs are combined in a balanced "OUTPUT AUTOFORMER". The resulting double balanced configuration cancels virtually all distortion. This circuit is ONLY possible with the exclusive "McINTOSH OUTPUT AUTOFORMER". (McIntosh Lab's words, not mine) Personally, I never thought the Mac SS stuff ever sounded as good as their tube gear. Its always sounded "dull", "dark" & somewhat lifeless to me. In fact any Mac SS gear thats been in my system was out of it within a week. "Off the record"........in speaking with a Klipsch engineer (mid 1980's), he said they didn't really like the Mac stuff either. Felt they were too noisy. On the other hand, PWK had some Mac in his personal system. So, as I always say...."to each his own" By the way dndphishin ......that is still a great find in such nice condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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