HDBRbuilder Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Mike, I agree that one should inquire as to the condition of any equipment one intends to place an eBay bid upon, unless the seller has already given that information COMPLETELY in his/her listing. This doesn't just apply to OLD stuff, either. That being said, the little H/K 430 was one of the most bullet-proof models of receiver ever built...if, for no other reason than its simplicity, it is prety hard to "kill"....even when having been in regular use for over 25 years! As long as it is kept relatively clean under the hood, not overly SEVERELY abused, and the controls are cleaned/lubed, even on an infrequent basis...they tend to hold up very well, indeed! Much of this is due to the fact that their amp sections build up very little heat, due to their "open and airy" under-the-hood design...and their more than adequate, yet simple, heat sinks! Excessive heat build-up is the biggest killer of electronic components in equipment...especially OLD equipment! All models of the H/K "X"30 series of receivers were designed in the U.S., but manufactured in Japan. I have no knowledge of any problems anybody has had with an H/K 430 they have bought on eBay in the last few months, except for finding wrong value/blown fuses in them, dirty controls that needed cleaning and lubing, a couple or so burnt out light bulbs, or,in one case so far (out of over a dozen!)...what appears to possibly be a well-worn volume pot(but that final determination has not yet been made, and it still sounds "great" according to its new owner)! As for any having had bad tuners, nothing but praise for the tuners so far! As for your not wanting to go for a unit on eBay "that sells for $30"...well...all I can say is...if it is in good condition, and somebody can pick it up that cheap(as MANY ALREADY HAVE)...then congratulations to the buyer!! LOL! Fact is...these SHOULD BE SELLING FOR MUCH MORE...and EVENTUALLY WILL...it is just a matter of time!! LOL! The answer to your question is...No, it doesn't count...since it is not regularly available complete and "ready to run, except for some cleaning and/or fuses" on eBay at a going price that is regularly under $100, including its shipping cost! LOL! Nice try, though! BTW, who was the actual manufacturer of your Monkey Wards "Airline"? Craig, I agree! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Wells and Gardener made radios for Montgomery Wards. Lynnm pointed that out to me. It didn't need fuses, it doesn't have any! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresy2guy Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Mobile, Maybe I didn't exactly phrase it right. I meant that it's the "cheapest" best sounding 2 channel setup you can get. I don't know of any other receiver/speaker package that sounds better and is more affordable then an H/K 430 and a pair of used Heresys; that's what I meant. I'm usually multi-tasking to high-hell while surfing this forum and typing rather quickly so sometimes my thoughts don't keep pace with my keystokes. I challenge somebody to find a better-sounding CHEAPER two channel setup then an H/K 430 with used Heresys - I dare ya!!! LOL As far as "brightness" goes, most heritage fans tend to like the in-your-face, bright sound of the horns. Many people describe the heritage horns as being "bright" and "too in-you-face." Whether you consider them and that kind of statement to be right or wrong depends on your taste, obviously. Didn't you (Mobile) prefer the Reference series to the Heritage...maybe I'm off my rocker but for some reason I seem to recall that you championed the Reference series? There seems to be two major Klipsch parties here - those that go for the Heritage and those that go for the Reference. I figured you as a Reference fan... Well, maybe I should add a third party - those who like both series because they come from Klipsch but still recognize that they are two different animals. At any rate, I'd still like to see somebody come up with a cheaper, better-sounding setup then a used H/K 430 with used Heresys. I think HDBRbuilder will back me on this when I say that I just don't think it can be done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Well, at least you have read my posts. I cant complain there. Yes, you have me pegged; I am a Reference man all the way and have been this way since the series first came out. While I have flirted with antiquated designs such of Heritage Series while browsing pawn shops and whatnot, I know something good when I hear it and the Reference RF's lit the way like a torch in a cave of innuendo. Pay no mind to that pesky signature nor webpages linked below either; those are horribly outdated and useless as a tonearm lift on a CD player. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresy2guy Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Oh yeah - Hey Mike - I'd be concerned about "rapping" with an Ebay seller for an expensive purchase; not one for 30 to 100 bucks - LOL. I'd be MORE concerned over buying something EXPENSIVE, like one of those supposedly restored vinatge tube-amps or perhaps a set of Cornwalls or La Scalas or other items that, with shipping, will approach (or even exceed) four figures. But hey, that's just me. I think Andy was trying to point out that considering the low cost of an H/K 430, there really isn't much "risk." It also seems that many people here have spent (and still do spend) considerable amounts of money on audio gear. I might not be "well-to-do," but even I could fork up the $60 to buy my H/K and then the $20 to ship it, so if somebody's really interested in how one sounds, there's not much of an excuse, fiscally speaking, to justify not picking one up. But again, that's just me... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresy2guy Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 See Mobile, you're right - I DO read what you post (and everyone else too) - LOL! Like I said, I seemed to recall you being a reference fan, but there's a lot of new stuff here on the board I'm reading tonight and I didn't feel like doing any homework now (read: going through the zillion or so posts you've done in order to ascertain the truth behind your preferred Klipsch series) so I had to rely on memory. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Well, to save you the trouble, the ONLY REASON I am even in this forum is because of the Klipsch Cornwalls I have. And the only reason I even GOT Klipsch Cornwalls was to partner with my 3.5w 2A3 SET amps. I had heard horns on bruiser solid state all my life in bands and had always thought the sound far from ideal. In my view, tubes work better on Heritage horns although good SS works as well, just not as well as a quality tube amp. And it's also in my view that an extra $150 added to your H/K 430 purchase would bring you an amp that would be an order of magnitude more refined in the mids and highs. I will put the EICO HF-81 against any solid state amp I have heard $1500 and down, although this monetary constraint is not particularly applicable. The quality tube amp would actually be a totally different sonic experience. Personally, I have not found a single solid state amp I really prefer over the EICO and I have had some serious entries. I do apologize for that tongue in cheek post concerning the Reference Series. Still, I wanted to try the H/K430 out to sample with the various other entries here. I have so many amps lying about that another one would force me to sleep on the deck...Which isnt a bad thing altogether come spring time. But the last thing I really need is yet another closet entry. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresy2guy Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Heck, Mobile, I'm low man on the totem (sp?) pole here - I have ONE cd player, one receiver (gave my dead proton away the other day) and one set of heresys --- that's it! LOL As a matter of fact, I'm thinking about "moving up in the world" (see my SLEEPER CASSETTE DECK and TURNTABLE post) since this year's tax refund is close at hand and I think I might be able to squirrel some away before my loving wife gets her talons...er...HANDS on it! LOL WANTED: H/K430-like (in cost and performance) cassette deck and turntable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Aw, who pays attention to signatures anyway! "At any rate, I'd still like to see somebody come up with a cheaper, better-sounding setup then a used H/K 430 with used Heresys." I did it with tube amps. Magnavox SE 6BQ5 amp, bought for 3 bucks, rebuilt for 20. The Monkey Wards receiver I mentioned for 10 bucks. A RCA single-ended 6BQ5 job with the console for 20 bucks. (It's down though, and it may donate it's PS for a pre-amp.) Some full-range speakers for ten bucks, a pair speaker cabinets for the 12" full-range speakers for ten bucks. And about another 20 bucks in supplies to finish the speaker cabinets. Yeah sure, these 12" FR's may not sound as good as a pair of Heresy's, but I had a pair of Chorus II's. The Fullrangers don't have the horn sound in the mid and high end like Klipsch, nor do they get as low as the Chorus's. But they have plenty of extension, and have enough bass to suit me for now. You get in that beam and don't crank it too much and it sounds pretty damn good. I here all the little details in material as I did with the Chorus II's. No crossovers. I was listening to the "Airline " receiver today. (This bastard will let you know if a station is compressed.) Who knows, it could sound like crap for all I know. "Oh yeah -Hey Mike - I'd be concerned about "rapping" with an Ebay seller for an expensive purchase; not one for 30 to 100 bucks - LOL" Go ahead, don't communicate with the seller, then pay 30 bucks and 20 bucks for shipping or so and buy a bunk SS amp. Ain't my cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Hey Mike, stop lolligagging and go get those damn Cornwalls from Edmond! I wonder if ole Heresyguy still thinks I like Reference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Soon! I can't read your signature, the lettering is too small and it's not longer than the initial post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresy2guy Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Sorry Mike, to me, it doesn't matter what Sanford & Son specials you might dig up and then connect to a "$10 full range speaker" with a home made cabinet. I sincerley doubt that it'll come ANYWHERE CLOSE to the sound produced by an H/K 430 with Heresys. I'm talking about buying working equipment at it's current market price that's cheaper then the HK/Heresy setup and puts out better sound and gives better performance. I'm NOT talking about scrounging around some junkyard or electronics-graveyard for busted and broken equipment and then trying to play B.A. Barakus (the guy from the "A-Team" TV show of the early 80s) armed with a soldering gun and a bunch of wire and spare parts and trying to build some frankenstein-like creation and then hooking it up to a $10 full range speaker(?!) and a homemade cabinet. I simply fail to see how that kind of abortion can sound as good or better then an H/K 430 and a pair of Klipsch Heresys. Trying to convince people of the merits of a cheap HK/Heresy combo is tough enough. Trying to convince people that the equipment you mentioned above in your post will sound as good or better then the HK/Heresy combo is like trying to part the Red Sea. Show me a "normal" working receiver who's current market value is below the H/K 430 and then a pair of speakers who's current market value is below that of a used pair of Heresys and then show me that it'll deliver more performance and give better sound then the HK/Klipsch setup. I don't think it can be done. And let's not bring up the guy who manages to find a "broken" mc250 for 12 bucks that only needs to have a fuse replaced to work properly and then somehow buys a pair of K-horns for 100 bucks from some old widow whose deceased husband bought them 40 years ago! That's fantasy-land stuff. I'm talking reality here - being able to go into an audio store or buy from an online merchant equipment that's working normally and is accurately priced at a cost below the HK/Heresy package. All that's left for me to say is that according to your post and comments, it seems like you're even cheaper then I am, which puts you in a category I previously thought to be unattainable! Congratulations!!!! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Thanks! Did I mention anywhere in my post that my speakers sound better than Heresey's? I know Cornwalls are a step up from Heresey's. So were Chorus II's for that matter. Enjoy your sand amp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Frankly, I find it ludicrous that some of the forum members who post in this section feel a need to post SOME of the things they DO post! It seems there is some kind of "double standard" with these particular members. What I am saying is...whenever somebody posts that they have bought with his/her LIMITED FUNDS, for instance, a Scott 299...or an Eico HF-81...and he/she is delighted with the purchase, these particular members congratulate the individual and provide suggestions to the recent purchaser that will improve the performance of the purchaser's system without compromising the individual's newly-bought amplifier. IOW, they suggest INEXPENSIVE ALTERNATIVE interconnects, tubes, etc, but they DO NOT tell the happy purchaser that he/she could have done better investing in something else for an amplifier! BUT....when a happy purchaser of an H/K 430 shows up...OH HOW THEIR COMMENTS CHANGE!!!! The comments border on telling the happy purchaser that he/she is a fool for wasting his/her limited funds on such an item that could not possibly provide "adequate"(in THEIR opinion, anyway!) performance through his/her speakers! Then they go on and on about how that small bit of money the purchaser seemingly has wasted on the H/K could have been better spent on this or that(not withstanding the fact that the happy purchaser would have had to provide at least DOUBLE the total cash outlay spent on the H/K to begin with!!). Why is this? Why can't we just be happy for the purchaser of an H/K 430, who has posted to this forum section in order to tell us members how delighted he/she is with the INEXPENSIVE "new" purchase? And why can't we just congratulate them on INEXPENSIVELY aquiring an item for their system that brings them joy when listening to it? I mean...when your next-door-neighbor or best friend, who has LIMITED FUNDS comes over to show off his/her "new" used car...do you folks congratulate the happy individual on the new purchase, then take the time to look it over...and maybe take a ride in it?...OR...do you folks immediately tell the "new" car purchaser, he/she could have done better by paying twice as much of his/her LIMITED FUNDS for another brand/model? Some of you need to think about this!!...And, hopefully, start to react appropriately instead of saying things that make you appear to be pompous azzes! This SHOULD be a "feel good about your TWO-CHANNEL SYSTEM" section of the forum, not a "FEEL BAD BECAUSE SOME POMPOUS AZZ SAID YOU ARE A FOOL FOR WASTING YOUR MONEY ON SOMETHING" section of the forum!! Nuff said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 As stated in the last Post. We All need to be positive and enjoy the simple facts of life. Thank whatever being you choose that you can even Listen to music and life. Life is to short to be negative to each other! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 So you calling me a pompous *** Andy? The dude insulted me as well. What? I can't stick up for myself? Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Mike, I didn't single anybody (or bodies) out...I just stated an observation and an opinion. There are those on both sides of this "issue" who need to pay more attention to their blanket statements and how they react to similar posts, agreed? I will note, though, that NEVER have any of the members ever seen me enter any comments into a thread about a member's pride in a recent aquisition of an item and start into a commentary on how much better-off the individual would have been to have taken his/her already limited funds, double them, and buy a different item...tube OR S/S!! Know what I mean? If/when a member asks for a recommendation for a particular component, and I have a recommendation to give, I post the recommendation. And, if the individual decides to follow my recommendation, then I am naturally curious as to their opinion of its total cost, condition, and performance when they get it. I also will do my best to provide them with anything I know of that pertains to that particular item, such as links to owner manuals and technical manuals, hints for cleaning, etc...if I have any info to offer-up in the situation! That is my style of doing things. To each his own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Hey anyone try the old Luxman SS integrated's and receiver's I am certain they would be on par with the HK's performance wise. I have heard Luxman paired with Klipsch in the 70's and it seemed to work well. Anyone tried any older Luxman stuff w/Klipsch. I sure would like to have some of their tube gear, very nice stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Heresy2conclusion - that post was really missing the point and off base. Most of my comments pertain to someone making generalizations concerning gear after hearing one or two amps, then drawing sweeping conclusions. Where do you infer that someone is belittling someone for being happy with their two channel purchase? Try something novel like READING IN CONTEXT, looking at the exact points being made and how they are phrased. Almost every response I had to the HK 430 rests in the user suddenly naming it world beater status, when very little in that big ole world has been sampled or compared. If you look above, this was when I reponded to you. These recommendations bother me. And I used to get on Andy about this..and low and behold, he has done a pretty good job of adjusting his recs to include QUALIFIERS and not blanket statements. IT seems qualifiers and details are very important when doing this. AGain, the idea of close reading for content and usage is missed. There is no denying that the H/K 430 is a great SS amplifier for the money. I have surely not argued this. But drawing other conclusions without listening experience seem problematic. On the other hand, if you have sampled some vintage tube amps, modern tube amps, high end solid state, tube amps of different topoligies such as the triode push pull, single ended triode, and ultralinear configuration, that making recommendations calling up BEST status would start to hold more weight. Your argument with me could be that I have not even HEARD the little HK 430 yet. And this would be true and a valid point. On the other hand, I freely admit this and base my ideas on a host of other samples of amps of this genre. You, on the other hand, do not report the experience nor comparison base. And your argument would be served better if you leave the cliche "pompous" comments out; they serve nothing and have nothing to do with the discussion or amp comparison. That you are enjoying your amp and system is never questioned. The comparison to other gear and the recommendation as BEST is. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Kelly,... Please scroll up to the original post in this thread and see if it had anything to do with an amp comparison...then slowly scroll down through the responses in this thread and find exactly WHERE it BECAME a comparison (that would be the first post that mentions a comparison to something else, agreed?)...and just who was involved in making it into a comparison...and continuing to make it a comparison. Guilty parties on both sides...but NOT the original poster...right? Maybe that is why the original poster tended to get a bit bent out of shape...ya think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.