Klipschorn driver repair.......help needed

[condorflyer]

Does anyone out there know of a reputable company that can repair the drivers (primarily the tweeter & mid-range squaker) as a matched pair with factory original repair parts AND provide some type of printout showing the bench frequency response or some other technical printout indicating the pair are actually matched within Klipsch factory tolerances? I know that is asking a lot, but high quality repair is the aim. Thanks!

[Tom Mobley]

I can replace the diaphragms for you, I can even use a tone generator and a SPL meter to give a rough idea of a response curve, but as far as some automated computerized reassurance type deal I not sure it would suffice for you. Another part of the problem is that I don't know of anybody who has reliably tested new examples of the old drivers and generated response curves. measuring one set wouldn't be that meaningful anyway, it might be an odd set. if somebody possessed reliable tone curves averaged from dozens or hundreds of samples there would be something to go by.

Are your drivers blown now? If somebody had a few hours to burn he could do before and after on them of they're still good. But, time is money.

I dunno, you might be chasing rainbows here, looking for precision that doesn't really exist.

There's a member here, HDBRBuilder, that worked at Klipsch building speakers during some of the glory years of the 70's and 80's, he might be able to provide some insight into how testing was done, how tight tolerances were, that sort of thing. I think sample tested drivers and then tested every set of assembled speakers, but who knows how tight the tolerances were.

There's a couple speaker rebuilding companies that have built good reputations, one of them is Simply Speakers in Florida and there's a couple others who advertise that they can re-magnetize the magnets, stuff like that. No way of knowing what their standards and daily practice tolerances are, though.

Good luck,

Tom

[Jim Cornell]

Id like to know if there are repairs myself, i dont use the power due to the age, and where to get replacement parts! If i so happen to blow something, (like i have the room to do it)

Jim

[condorflyer]

I have some old tweeters, the one with the round encased magnet (sorry, don't have it front of me...it's in storage out of state) that I would like to get fixed. The squakers are fine for the time being, but it would be nice to have a company lined up for repair.

The other alternative, of course, is to buy new/replacement drivers but NOW that is a purplexing issue: with the introduction of the "new & redesigned Klipshorn", the new tweeter & new squawker are TOTALLY incompatible with the older crossovers. So now the question arises: Is there anyone out there that has loaded up on the old stock that would like to lighten their load??? I would be specifically interested in: (2)matched, new, never used, K-77-M tweeters in their original box & (2)matched, new, never used, K-77-M squawkers in their original box. Let me know...I'm in the market. Thanks!

[Tom Mobley]

If your tweeters in storage are k77V's, I'd be interested in them even if they're blown.

My email is tmoble@earthlink.net if you're interested in selling them.

Tom

[BEC]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14993&item=3016204948&rd=1

[condorflyer]

BEC, thanks for the link, but unless it's stamped Klipsch, I'm not interested.

Tom, the broken tweeters I have are the same as these for sale on ebay now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3015722656&category=3276

[tmoble]

condorflyer,

I need a nice pair for my DIY LaScala's I just finished. I can replace the diaphragms so I don't really care much if they are currently blown. I bought a set of T-35-B by mistake, want to go to the T-35 or K-77V alnico type. Several people have told me they can't hear the difference between the T-35/K-77V and the T-35-B which has a slightly smaller magnet but uses the same diaphragm, but I too want the right ones. I can either repair them for you or buy them from you and fix them for myself. Let me know if you're interested in moving them.

Tom

tmoble@earthlink.net

[JohnA]

Condorflyer,

Klipsch will rebuild your drivers with OEM parts and test them to see if they meet specs. I doubt that they will supply your with a curve to prove it, but you can ask. How would you know the curve indicated original performance? The 2003 drivers use the same diaphragms (squawker and tweeter) as your 60s/70s drivers. Unless they have been dropped, or subjected to long-term high power levels, they will meet original performance with new diaphragms. Klipsch charges about $80 each last time I asked.

There are not any NOS Klipsch Heritage drivers around anymore. Since the original diaphragms are available, that is not relevant. In the worst case, your K-55-V and K-77 AlNiCo drivers can be remagnitized to full strength, but it is rare to find the capability and it is not cheap. Klipsch can no longer do it, but there is an outfit in the plains that can (Iowa?). I believe they bought the old Altec tooling and are producing Altec parts.

[horonzak]

What doe,s ALTEC got to do with it?

[TBrennan]

Great Plains Audio in Oklahoma can remagnetize weak Alnico magnets and rebuilds most brands of pro drivers including EV, I presume they repair Atlas too.

Great Plains owns the original Altec production equipment (including a diaphragm former designed by Jim Lansing himself) and makes brand new parts and drivers that are identical to the original Altec parts, these parts are called "Iconic". They are making woofers, compression drivers, DuPlexe drivers which are identical to the Altec 515s, 902s, 288s, 604s and so on, the whole schmear. They are also going to make completed speaker systems under the Iconic name. Those in the know will recognize Iconic as the name of several fine horn loudspeaker systems made by Lansing Mfg. and Altec-Lansing. The owner of Great Plains was the real Altec's last head engineer and knows what he's doing.

[condorflyer]

tmoble: the blown tweeters are in storage in Atlanta and I'm currently living in Pennsylvania. I really wanted to keep them and get them fixed, sorry 'bout that.

John Albright,

It's amazing....I spoke with a guy in the Klipsch parts department a few days ago. I told him my plight: that I have some drivers I would like to get fixed AND to stock up on some drivers that would work with my K-horns. He NEVER mentioned that the company could or would repair the drivers. He also said all the old drivers were sold out and they aren't getting any more, ever. In addition, he told me the new K-horn (model year 2002 and newer) uses a new tweeter and new squaker. He also said these 2 new components are COMPLETELY INCOMPATIBLE with the old drivers, ie K-77-M, K-77-V, K-55-M, K-55-V. The news just kept getting better: his ONLY solution to me was to buy the upgrade kit @$900 per speaker. At first, I felt completely sick. I thought: I love my K-horns just the way they are. What am I supposed to do if I blow a driver? Where am I supposed to go? In fact, I remember asking him who he recommended I send my drivers to for repair. He didn't recommend or know of any company.

I have to admit, when I got off the phone with him, I was really ticked off. Then I started doing some reading about the 2002 Klipschorn and thought: if I would even contemplate doing the upgrade, I would want to FIRST listen to what the new K-horn sounds like. Of course it's difficult to come to an intelligent decision when you factor in that their environment and equipment are different from your own, but what the hell can you do? I have plans to listen to the 2002 Klipschorns in the next few months and will consider the upgrade if I like what I hear.

As for Klipsch doing the repair work themselves, that is the BEST news I've heard so far! As for how I would you know the curve indicated original performance? I bloody wouldn't, but some type of documentation is better than none That's also good news to hear the diaphragms the same, but, and excuse my ignorance on this one, what if the voice coil is toast? Wouldn't that be a major problem them?

With regard to remagnitzing the drivers: (please understand I'm not an engineer about this)....isn't this a simple matter of running high current through the magnet? I worked in NDI (non-destructive inspection) for a short while and the way we demagnitzed a part was to put it near a strong electric current and slowly move it away (and the opposite would charge the part or again as mentioned above to run high electric current through the part). The machine we used to mag-particle test like this was not outrageously priced. I guess there's a lot more to it for audio drivers?

Thanks for the update!

Austin

[condorflyer]

TBrennan,

Almost forgot....thank you for link to Great Plains Audio!

Austin

[TBrennan]

Austin---I'd send the tweeters to Bill at Great Plains and have him repair and remagnetize them. Note that one should assume that an Alnico magneted driver that has blown has a weakened magnet, the strong field around an overdriven voicecoil can weaken Alnico magnets. This can happen in an instant.

I wouldn't even worry about the mid drivers, I've personally never known a Klipsch mid driver to blow, they are very stout and reliable. I used to use my LaScalas as PA speakers in a punk power-trio I was in back in the late 70s and never blew anything, we were pretty loud. :-)

[Audible Nectar]

All this talk of alnico magnet weakening has me wondering - is there any reason to be concerned about my '76 alnico Cornwalls? I do recall reading that hard bumps/shocks to the magnet caused weakening in those magnets, but since mine were only moved once in 27 years (when I got them) I doubt it is an issue. The original owner babied these as well - I'll bet they never saw over 90 db until I got them.

I do wonder if this happens just from age, however. I don't think I'm missing anything, but I am curious if am, and don't know it. Are there specific symptoms of weak alnico magnets? Is it normal to "recharge" them periodically?

[TBrennan]

Phishin---Don't worry about it. Alnico can be demagnetized by a strong, sharp blow; strong is the word, like striking the magnet with an 8lb. beater. Alnico magnets in normal use are VERY stable.

For informed discussions on magnet materials check the Altec Users Board.

[JohnA]

Austin,

By your description, you have the AlNiCo K-55-V and K-77. The K-55-V is really an Atlas PD5-VH that, after a time, was specially modified for Klipsch. The K-77 is the early E-V T-35A. The dates and lore is a bit vague, but the AlNiCo T-35As were supposed to have been hand selected by Klipsch for performance. All T-35/T-35A/T-350s use the same diaphragm; it is still readily available. Diaphragms always include the voice coil. The PD5-VH is still in production as is its diaphragm. The 2003 Heritage drivers are newer versions of these 2 drivers, but due to the production techniques used now, are about 1.5 db less efficient. That requires a new crossover. The tweeter crossover point has been lowered, implying the squawker MAY not be able to go as high as it used to. All of this makes the new drivers incompatible with the old crossovers, but not as drastically as you were lead to believe.

Four years ago, Klipsch was willing to overhaul the same drivers in my La Scalas, should they need it, for about $76 each. I hope they have not decided to stop that service. However, the work can be done by any competent technician at any good Pro Audio shop. The K-77 diaphragm replacement appears to be idiot-proof. I know from experience that the K-55-V diaphragm requires a little care to get just right. Still, this work (minus the testing)is of the D.I.Y. level of complexity. You almost cannot overhaul one and fail to meet new performance.

I have not experienced the sort of answers from Klipsch Customer Service I have heard reported on this BBS. It disappoints me that different people get different answers and different levels of support.

[condorflyer]

John,

You are correct about my drivers, I do have the K-55-V and K-77. I inherited my fathers Klipschorns. My father met Paul Klipsch at a New York audio show sometime in the 60s. My father was so impressed with him, he bought the K-horns and one Cornwall as unfinished boxes. This was after he already owned the Altec Voice of the Theater speakers which my other brother currently owns. My father also bought one Patrician which I sold a long time ago. Out of the three, I prefered the K-horn. I grew up listening to the VOT and always liked them, but after I completely refinished and veneered the K-horns, I was completely enchanted with them. It was a labor of love. Once I put a VOT on one side of a room and the K-horn on the other and my brothers & I all went for the K-horn. My father voted for the VOT, although it was close. I took some aircraft grade birch veneer and finished them to look like the current model. This refinishing took place in the early 90s. A while back I checked the serial number for them and they were made in the 60s. Like an idiot, I ended up blowing the tweeters (K-77) and the woofers were shot anyway, so I bought from a Klipsch dealer the newer tweeter (K-77-M) and new woofers. I still have the old tweeters, but I dont know what happened to the old woofers unfortunately. Fast forward to 2001; thats when I learned about Al Klappenbergers crossover. I finally bought a set from him a number of months ago and Im stewing because my K-horns are in storage in Atlanta and Im living and working in Pennsylvania. My place is so small right now, but I still want to listen to them. Its time for a road trip with a moving van!

Thanks for clarification on the diaphram including the voice coil. Where does one buy a new PD5-VH these days? I asked Mr. Klappenberger if his crossover is compatible with the new 2002 Klipschorn tweeter & squaker, but he wasnt sure. He needs to look at the new crossover and test the drivers. If I get the upgrade kit, Id certainly be interested in his opinion.

Im very grateful this forum exists and for all the help!

[JohnA]

I bought the last K-55-V/PD5-VH diaphragm from A Pro Audio shop In Nashville called Techstar. Ask for Sam. A few years ago a new PD5-VH was $160.

[audiogod79]

----------------

The K-55-V is really an Atlas PD5-VH----------------

John,

I just learned this recently....I also have a Atlas PD-60T which is identical to the pd-5vh. The 5vh and the 60t actually sound almost identical to me. Do you know if their is a difference? The power rating, impedance are the same and the voice coils look identical. Any input??