Deang Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 I have been interested in this kind of thing for some time -- anyone here ever been there done that? I'm particularly intriqued by John Wycoff's Super 12 design (Hammer Dynamics). http://www.hammerdynamics.com/ A really interesting site is James Melhuish's Single Driver Website. http://www.melhuish.org/audio/index.htm On the left hand side of the page you will see a little more than 1/2 way down a link for 'Super 12 Tweaks'. I found out that I'm certainly not alone regarding my thoughts on woofer basket damping and Deflex panels. At any rate -- there are a lot of interesting things to read on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horonzak Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Sick Sick all of you are sick. IT makes me hungry for white iceing on chockolet cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 I have listened to Moth Audio new towers with a single driver with classic Marantz tubes and an MMF 7 TT. They were quite impressive. I was thinking about getting a pair of EV sp12 full range drivers to play with and build a cabinet. Never heard Lowthers; I hear they are great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 DEAN! I really gotta tell ya (I've seen this one too many times before)......I think you're WAY "over-thee-edge" on this one. Get over it & start listening to the MUSIC. That crap is a waste of time. While you're at it, why don't you just paste some VINTAGE Silver Dollars or gold pieces on the cone too. And what's with the bubble wrap? To cushion the sound maybe? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Dean: Check out Lowthers, too. The late John W.'s system is supposed to be really great-sounding -- probably better in bass response than Lowthers, depending on the Lowther application. I'm using the Medallion II cabinets, which are rear-loaded horns. Very fast, very clear and articulate, excellent high frequency extension, but moderate bass reproduction. They are incredible with acoustic music, though. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 I've heard a number of single drivers, even fiddled with them myself (EV SP-8s) and most sound as bad as any other direct-radiators, even worse. Especially bad are Fostexes which are usually used by people trying to do a Lowther thing on the cheap. Personally I figure that 5" cones sound bad enough without being tweeterless to boot. Single drivers are a recipe for massive IM distortion ans as DJK puts it, singers who sound like they're gargling. Lowthers are an exception but note that they are very strange drivers with exceptionally light cones and exceptionally powerful magnets that can "brute force" some high frequencies. Of course the powerful magnets overdamp the drivers so they make no bass, the rear horn-loading usually seen with Lowthers is done in "self defense" so to speak, to bring the rapidly rolled-off bass up to the level of the direct-radiating upper bass and mids. Odd speakers but they sound OK but still not near as robust or powerful as a proper horn rig with compression drivers and 15" woofs. Of course the most popular single-driver speakers are Bose, massive cult following. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 "Get over it & start listening to the MUSIC. " I agree. The Moth Audio's are interesting; but no slam. I am sticking with the LK-48 and the Chorus II. The music is cool and still many TT tweaks can be worked on to satisfy the urge for change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 21, 2003 Author Share Posted April 21, 2003 Yeesh, it's not like I went out to The Net looking for caulked baskets. I was reading some Dick Olsher Reviews at Enjoythemusic.com and fell into the link for the Single Driver Website, and just kind of went around the horn so to speak. Looks like I gave Maron chest pains again. Thanks Tom, that's pretty much what I figured -- but I bet some of that stuff sounds pretty sweet at low volume levels (as if I actually know anything about THAT). Artto -- you're a wiener. I listen to plenty of music -- but I'm not sure if that's what you would call it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horonzak Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 DeanG.... Chest pains? Its the other end. I still have a pair of JBL LE-8 HT speakers So called full range. I like them better than LOWTHER. In small horn cabinet designs the LE-8 have a better SLAM at the lower end & LOWTHER sounds enemic (or is it enema). The top end of both still sound too soft . The wizzer cone on LOWTHER & shiny dome on JBL Dont help. The distortin levels on both speakers are pretty high. I have an article in Radio Electronics between Paul Klipsch & Hartly (Hartly Speakers) AS to the amount of distortion (FM distortion) In full range speakers. it was a pretty heated discussion between them. Paul Klipch made mince meat out of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Dean I have some fostex FE208 sigmas. I have tried them in two cabinets so far. A tapered voight pipe type cab, which had a bumped up upper bass and nothing below, I decided it sounded nearly the same as the attached photo of a german desgined cabinet. which I recently had made for me by a local cabinet maker. sounds about as good as anything I have ever heard out there bookshelf-speaker-wise but does nothing below about 80-60hz. I am still thinking about building two or three other desgins. one based on the famous japanese "swan" design for the smaller fostex drivers, one based on the cornu spiral horn design (really cool looking but a bear to route the spirals) and lastly a hedlund horn clone (also looks like a bear to build and too big for the resulting "extended bass" sound, IMHO). There are also some fostex offical designs out there which some japanese guys swear by. I will tackle those other cabs as my retirment home projects when I have the time and the space. in the meantime I have decided that these drviers serve best a book-shelf speaker killers. if you want some JPGs of plans let me know, I have quite a collection...warm regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolin Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Dean, I was looking at the singel driver method a while back and been eyeing those super 12 too. I must say however i believe they will go fairly low i dont think you will be satisfied with your listening volumes and its x-max of about 1mm each way. Collin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 Well sure, you're not going after major output here with these things - you're going after more coherency by not splitting the signal and running it through passive crossover parts, and then of course trying to bring the whole mess into some kind of listenable balance. Tom is right, IM would be terrible at anything above 80db -- however, they might sound really sweet late at night after everyone goes to bed. I'm also thinking these might be especially sweet with SET. It's a marriage made in heaven -- wimpy speakers with wussy amps. The nice thing about the Super 12's is that they play low enough -- and the highs are augmented by a super tweeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Well, I have to admit that much of this is my experience as well -- regarding Lowthers. However, the fact that the cone is only 5 inches with amazingly short excursion has only partly to do with the way they sound. More than 95% of recorded music is related to midrange reproduction, and this is where Lowthers are difficult to beat -- IMHO, of course. I have made my own speakers for years before venturing into the Lowther thing. And I love the speakers, but they sounded even better on an open baffle (combined with the La Scalas)than they do in rear-loaded horns. All that said, I find the La Scalas simply remarkable. They combine very good -- well, everything. They also made realize what bass I had been missing for years. Despite the fact the my La Scalas need just some minor cosmetic attention, they are here for keeps. I listen to them more than the Lowthers,now, which is something I thought I'd never hear myself saying. There is still a great deal to be said with the crossoverless Lowther driver, though. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hardy Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 I feel a little, well... dirty... talking about FR's at the Klipsch Forum, but IMO you're on to something, DeanG. There's room for everything in this world, and there's a place for FR designs. There really is something to be said for a real point source and no crossover. I've recently "built" (well, stuffed the boxes and installed the drivers... I didn't do the woodwork) a pair of mass loaded TQWTs with Radio Shack 40-1354's a la Bob Brines' site (http://geocities.com/rbrines1/) and I love 'em. These aren't for slam (although they do have bass), they're for MR clarity and nuance. If you visit Bob's site and look at "Projects and Proposals built by others", you can see one of my TQWT's next to one of the Cornies. Given the low cost of admission, there's lots of fun that may be had with certain FR's. As to the Hammers... James Melhuish has a pair that he built. They are good sounding speakers, but I actually prefer the Cornwalls. I could live with the Hammers, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horonzak Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 The only POINT SOURCE I ever liked is the TANNOY Westminsters. But of course this is a coaxial horn system, and cost twice as mutch as a pair of K-horns. BUT back to little full range speakers in big horns they still are lacking slam. I think ill try looking for a coax Tannoy 8" or 10" & place them in a Lowther like scratch built horn cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 ---------------- On 4/24/2003 2:08:27 PM Mark Hardy wrote: I feel a little, well... dirty... talking about FR's at the Klipsch Forum,... Why? I listen to 12" FR's, but I tend like 12" horn/paper Coaxials I've experienced more. I have some home-brew cabinets, swap drivers, muck around with, etc.. It's fun. ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Am I the only one that heard the Moth Audio single driver speakers. Once with a marantz vintage tube setup Once with a Hommade 300B triode setup. Kinda cool, I understand the no crossover sound a little bit. They were able to be compared to RF-5 Klipsch in this setup and were hauntingly more detailed and more deep in the soundstage. it was weird! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 http://www.mothaudio.com/ Picures and specs are here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 29, 2003 Author Share Posted September 29, 2003 I remember all of the "warm" posts when I was thinking about single driver designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Maron, I'd like to read that article. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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