marksdad Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 as you know i now own a very nice set of cornerhorns. and i want to know what is the best way to set up? my listening environment is about16-14-8, and to be honest i have a good amount of other furniture taking up space in the room. my problem is that furniture is along the same walls that make up the bass extension. my center lascalla was against the wall just to the left of the right front khorn, i noticed that when i moved the lascalla forward about 10 inches my bass depened? so i guess by doing this i extended the bass response along the long wall? i know my room is small for k horns, but the will not be leaving any time soon. i am probably answering my own questions, but for best results i need to rearrange my furniture right? or just plain get rid of a few pieces? it seems that i am restructuring my house to accomodate my k horns, yesterday i sold all of my 160 cd's and replaced as much as i could with the proceeds from the sale, because of my new gear i need excellent downstream, so i now have only sacd, dvd-a, dvd, dvd-v, i just need a new source for dvd-a and sacd, i pretty much have bought all of the good titles, and i have found that alot of the older stuff that is supposedly remastered was done pretty badly, like so many of us have said it is like a disease, with no escape!!!! any of you new guys thinking of upgrading, now is your chance, run, turn and dont look back. ahhhggggg its got me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted June 29, 2003 Author Share Posted June 29, 2003 thanks alot JIM CORNELL, paybacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Dad, Could use more info on your layout. Are you saying that you've got furniture blocking the sides of the Khorns somewhat? Where are you going to be sitting? Ideally in multi-channel you'd have all the speakers equidistant from you, which is not an easy thing to accomplish in most rooms, especially if you have to take into consideration other furniture. You wouldn't happen to have a finished basement you could set up your stuff in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Hmm All i can say is you lost me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reel 2 reel Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 get rid of the kids....sell the wife...put the furmiture to the road....tear out the walls ..make the room bigger and just put a swivel rocker,or, a real compfy recliner...in the middle somewhere ...grab a couple of cold ones out of the fridge ...and GO FOR BROKE DUDE!!!!!!!.....just kiddin'...........gc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted June 30, 2003 Author Share Posted June 30, 2003 i asked my son if he would like to go live with his mom elmo, but he said there was no klipsch there so he would prefere to stay, i will post more on layout later, have to go to work now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Marksdad, the best advice I can give is....... Start over with the room arrangement. Empty it. Place the Klipschorns where they sound good, then make a room plan that will accomodate them. I recently laid out a new room plan (not entirely new, but I did empty and start over). This solved several problems....it allowed me to place 6 Cornwalls in a room not much bigger than yours, with very good sonic results - in a manner that looks good in the room. It also was a good time to do a little spring cleaning to boot. I know it sounds a bit self absorbed (and may certainly sound this way to the spouse), but with Klipsch in the room......especially Klipschorns, the speakers come first. It is the best way to get the most out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 6 Cornwalls Awesome! My bro in law Gilbert told me you had 6 Cornwalls but I was not sure exactly whom he was talking about. He has Khorns and 4 Cornwalls now, and I have 2 Khorns and 3 La Scala's plus Heresy II's and KG-1's. My room is like 16' X 13' and I have all my stuff in there and it sounds really good, but it is far from ideal. I am shopping for a home since I currently live in an apartment and the most important thing is it needs to have an ideal room for the HT primarily for the Khorns and La Scala's. Not to mention the two 15" subwoofers, TV, and stereo equipment rack. I have pondered moving things around but the options are limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 It is tough to find a home with a room big enough to do justice to multi channel with Klipschorn Left and Right. In most houses, you'll also run into fireplace or doorway issues, or WAF issues. I find the best way around this is to have a large finished basement. That keeps the sound from bothering neighbors and doesn't make the family room or living room full of speakers with no room for furniture. I've had Klipschorns in little bedrooms before, and in efficiency apartments, and I've used Heresies as computer speakers, and having them that close is okay, but it just does not compare to giving them room to breathe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Looking at your room dims, and not knowing what your corners are like, I would suggest using the 16 foot wall in between your Khorns. Using the golden mean numbers at 16' wall the back wall should be 12.3 feet. Your 14' will give you a 1.14 ratio. Not bad. Your sweet spot looks like it will be about 8 feet from the front wall. If your room is rectangular and depending on the size of the doorways or openings to the other rooms. But if your front wall is solid and the sides of your rooms wall are at least 6' of wall form the Khorns corners you should get some good imaging off the 16' wall. Maybe contact Artto, he is the room expert here by far. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 And just to interrupt for a moment, if you want a sensational multi channel SACD, buy "Missa Salisbugensis" ("Salzburg Mass") by Friedrich Biber at BestBuy for $15.99. My surround channels have never had a greater work-out. This has choirs, organs, woodwinds, strings, horns, drums. If you want to hear a glorious mass from the 17th century, and who doesn't, you must buy this. The dynamic range is incredible. Not recommended for small rooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Mark When i was there, just try to relocate the desk, like you said, also i think the couch is between the sweet spot, not in the precise location for it! Youd almost have to sit on the staircase, to get the sweet spot, i had 1 k-horn, in the corner to my left, and the other behind me in the corner on the right, they were basically facing each other, like the cornwalls are now! By the way, my neighbor can hear my K-horns loud and clear in her house LOL! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Marksdad, I can't disagree with too much stated above ... so I'll play the Devil's Advocate here and just say ... "Leave it all alone" If the Klipschorns share the long wall and they're snuggly wedged into the corners (with some foam strips along the tail piece and the tops of the bass bin), you're 90% of the way home. Yes, it would be nice to remove everything and have one "Captain Kirk" chair in "Position A", but we have to understand too that not all houses are big enough and require multiple uses for each room. The reason this may work is because the dynamics of the Klipschorns appear to be so huge that the furniture's effect may be relatively small. Hell, I've got chairs and floor plants in front of my Klipschorns, curtains to the side, and sofas and wing chairs in the middle of the room ... and it all still sounds insanely good ... for even a crappy room! My NEXT HOUSE will have a dedicated listening room of pretty good proportion, preferably in the dark, quiet subterrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 In a very early document, PWK suggested a minimum of 4 feet clearance for the Khorn from the wall corner. I would definitely try putting them on the long wall first, especially if you are going to use a bridged center speaker. Starting out with the room empty (just the Khorns & other gear) as suggested above, is a good place to start. Ive found that Khorns do not like a lot of sound absorption close around them. So the popular live-end/dead-end acoustical approach where the front wall where the speakers are located is dead doesnt work well. With an empty room you can walk around, speaking (soft & loud), snap your fingers & clap your hands to listen for hot spots, areas where you can hear the sound flutter, echo, or ping. Those would be the places you would want to place some kind of diffusion (furniture, a bookcase, curtain, acoustical diffuser devices, etc.). Ultimately, the proper approach is to try and keep the delay of reflected sound reaching your ears much longer than the direct sound from the speaker so your ear/brain can differentiate between the two. If the reflected sound is reaching your ear with very little time differential compared to the direct sound from the speaker, you will lose definition and imaging will be impaired. The sound is basically smeared. Its not something thats noticeable per se, until youve heard your system without it. Because of their corner design, Khorns are capable of exciting any and all standing wave problems that a room may have. This is directly related to the rooms proportions. And increasingly so, the smaller the room size. These standing waves generally pile up most at room boundaries, in particular, the intersection of two or more boundaries (ie: ceiling/back wall, or left & right rear corners of room). Often, these standing waves will also cause a null or cancelation effect at the listening position which reduces the apparent bass (which is something Khorns are frequently criticized for). Large furniture such as a sofa can help break up standing waves. The best solution is to use some form of bass trapping (a misnomer or oxymoron) in the rear of the room, preferably, floor to ceiling in the rear room corners, and possibly along the rear wall/ceiling boundary. This has the effect of "nulling the null" (if there is one) at the listening position. Apparent bass loudness/fullness is increased and definition top to bottom is also better. PWK preferred his room more to the dead side & so do I. My rear wall is treated with plenty of sound absorption to reduce those short time delay reflections. The sides walls are hard surfaces, although they are convex polycylindrical & provide substantial diffusion. I dont have pics of the rear of the room yet. But basically, there are a couple of smaller diffusers similar to the ones on the front wall, with Auralex DST114 tiles stacked 1,2 & 3 deep on the back wall with Auralex DST LENRD bass traps across most of the back wall/ceiling intersection, and Auralex LENRD bass traps stacked in the rear corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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