Wire splicing question

[mark1101]

Fellas,

I have another wire question. I read the Indy stuff and didn't see anything on splicing. I know it is probably taboo.

However, I have a pair of Cornwalls and a pair of LaScalas (speaker a/b, 2 Ch system). I have them about 75 ft. from the amp. I use 12ga. monster cable for both pairs but had to splice both sets of speaker wires (all 4) to make the distance. I made sure each of the 4 speakers has exactly the same lengths of wires and spliced the monster cable with large wire nuts and used electrical tape to provide some strain relief.

Question: Is this setup better than just using some non-spliced runs of cheaper cable, say 16ga.?

Question: In the scenario above, how much of a difference can you guess there would be if there were no splices using same 12 ga. monster?

Question: In the scenario above, what frequencies suffer most because of the splicing? (This is what is most important to me)

What I hear is this. Cornwalls have the good base but the lack the mid and top end of the LaScalas. The LaScalas lack the base of the cornwalls in the room. Granted, I'm not using much volume because it's a basement and gets harsh. I plan to take the LaScalas outdoors for the 4th and let them loose to see if the base is better outdoors at a distance.

What I hear I think is correct for cornwalls and LaScalas, and agrees with the frequency response charts Klipsch provides.

But what effect does the spcing have?

Anyhow, I appreciate any insite into the splicing issue.

Thanks

[Frzninvt]

It is better to use larger gauge wire (12ga-10ga) for long runs (50ft or more) so you are fine there. There is really no problem in splicing two pieces of speaker wire together as long as the polarity was correctly maintained. You should have NO frequency loss at all. The only thing I think you may gain is an ever so slight more resistance but that is about it. Crank away and enjoy! I would love to drag my LAS outside and let them rip with about 250W per channel of clean power going to them. Party on dude!

[fini]

You don't have to worry about the lengths of wire being equal.

fini

[Malcolm]

You should hear no difference between properly spliced cables and a single cable of the same length. I would solder the connections and not rely on wire nuts.

[marksdad]

there is 1 thing to consider when splicing. when splicing it is very important that the splice is done properly. by this i mean twist tightly, and neatly, and than use an ul approved connector to insure, that the termination does not loosen, if not done properly, as in soldering the joint will cause resistance, causing heating, causing loss, and unless the wire length is really drastic dont worry

[marksdad]

i at 1 time had corns and las's in my ht, when playing music i just prefered the corns, true the las's do have a higher top end, a bit more defined, and the las's have a faster bottom end, but for music the corns have an excellent top end, and an *** kicking bottom end, you can litterally feel it!

[Frzninvt]

LAS + Good Subs = Cornwall Killer!

[Marvel]

Mark1101,

A good way to make a splice is to cut your wire as shown in the diagram (especially good if doing power cables). The wires overlap this way. There is a bit of an art to it, but you can put heat shrink over each conection and then a larger piece over the whole thing. It makes it very neat this way. You should twist the stripped ends together before soldering.

Marvel

[dbflash]

You kinda discribed the difference between the LS and the Cornwalls.

I would solder the splices instead of wirenuts with stranded wire.

I would also make sure that the wire is all connected the right way and you didn't roll anything.

I can't remember exactly how Monster is labeled but usualy one side has either writing on it or +++++++. Make sure that it is the same for all 75 feet or you are out of phase.

I know these speakers are heavy, but can't you set them up close to the amp. Listen to them and then move them away. They should should the same close or farther away.

The cables don't have to be exactly the same lenght unless you are biwiring or bi amping. The "rule" is no more than 40% difference in lenght.

I hope you enjoy them on the 4th.

danny

[marksdad]

dont mean to argue, but even the solder creates unwanted resistance, neat yes, but resistance. i am an electrician, and we got away from solder along time ago for splicing, 1 reason was because it sometimes started fires, you would not be pushing enough to start a fire, just an example of resistive heating

[mark1101]

Thanks everyone for all the good info and different perspectives on splicing. I am an electrical type myself, and so I am pretty anal retentive about making sound connections and keeping things in phase.

I was a little surprised about the wire lengths not needing to be the same. I don't know where I got that from, but since I was a kid I always tried to cut them exactly the same.

I worked for a cable TV company when I was younger and was always consciuous of the loss of lower frequencies over distance relative to the higher frequencies. We would "tilt" the spectrum when we balanced the amps to compensate for this.

Albeit, that was modulated signals up in the Mhz. and much longer runs.

Oh well I think this one is closed.

Thanks again.

[Marvel]

----------------

On 7/2/2003 7:20:17 PM marksdad wrote:

dont mean to argue, but even the solder creates unwanted resistance, neat yes, but resistance. i am an electrician, and we got away from solder along time ago for splicing, 1 reason was because it sometimes started fires, you would not be pushing enough to start a fire, just an example of resistive heating

----------------

The resistance in the amount of solder for the speaker wire connections is going to be pretty negligible isn't it? The resistance coefficient for lead IS higher than copper, but we're not talking feet.It this was the case, your whole preamp/amp design would have to be altered. If you could show data that proves your case, that would be awesome, but I don't think you will find it readily available. I use 2percent silver on most of my connections (better still than 60/40/ solder).

Did the electricians start the fires of the circuit in use?

Marvel

[marksdad]

they are discussing this in another thread currently. it would be enough to "color" your output

[WMcD]

As everyone knows, I'm the "wire is wire" guy. And 16 gauge is good enough. Anything lower is overkill.

I'll now become, "a splice is a splice" guy.

The overall problem I see is that when we get to 12 gauge, we need a "bug" to make the splice. Soldering 12 gauge or the like requires bigger irons, etc. You might be better off with something mechanical.

I can't quite agree that soldered connections cause heating and fires. This might occur if you have some very poor soldering and push a lot of current across it. But I've not seen it. The only time I saw something like this was in a circuit where a wirewound resistor was getting so hot it melted the solder connection. Obviously a poor design.

Consider, the output transistors in the amp work with soldered connections. So why would we think the soldered splice in a feed wire is gonna be a problem? The connections within the speaker box are soldered too. So you have solder at either end working well. How come there is a purported problem in the middle.

I can't see that a wire nut connection is going to be a problem either. At least as long as the wire and wire nut are the correct gauge. Gosh, wire nuts are powering, splicing, every single outlet in America. We're pulling 5 amps to light up the toaster or microwave. Nothing breaks down.

This should hold up as true up to 15,000 Hz. I've measured response of wire with allegaor clips, screw down connections, simple twisting, etc. It all works just fine.

It is true that when one is running TV signals over miles, on coax, there is going to be some loss. But the lowest TV signal on Channel 2 is at 50,000,000 Hz. The upper end is at least 500,000,000 Hz. That is a far cry from 20 feet of speaker wire going across the living room.

It is a bit of a diatribe. However, it is odd that our electrical civilization is based on wirenuts, screw down connections in the breaker box, screw in light bulbs, etc. Yet when it comes to speaker leads, people start believing there is some black magic. There is none.

Gil

[WMcD]

And while I'm ranting.

Gee, Gil, stop ranting. No, I'm not. Yes you are.

All our DSL connenctions are going going through miles on simple twisted pair with punch down connections.

. . . .

[reel 2 reel]

Ive been wireing houses for years ..we use wire nutz on our splices up to 50 amps@ 110 volts...If they can handle that ..then they should be able to pass a couple of milliamps @ 5- 20 volts with no problem....gc

[Malcolm]

Gil,

DSL doesn't work worth sh*t unless you are close to the switch and everything is in real good shape in between. The phone company could never get it work work reliably. Lived in an older neighborhood. Now she has a fibre optic broadband connection. Much better.