ragjr Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 Can anyone tell me how to wire a Heresy between two Belles or LaScalas to make a three speaker array for stereo. I believe I just jump a cable from the + terminal of one speaker at the amp input to the + terminal of the Heresy and jump another cable from the other speaker at the - terminal at the amp input to the - terminal of the Heresy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted January 20, 2001 Share Posted January 20, 2001 Klipsch used to make, or at least make available some kind of little gizmo to do just what you're talking about. I wonder if it is still available? I have my khorns set up along the long wall in my music room, and would like to use a belle for the center, utilizing a passive, summed signal to drive it. At least until I can upgrade to SACD or DVD-Audio. ------------------ JDMcCall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted January 20, 2001 Share Posted January 20, 2001 I seem to rememeber that a lot of vintage McIntosh preamp and integrated amp equipment is equipped to derive this signal and send it to a center speaker...someone else will have to ring in on the Klipsch gizmo....regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted January 20, 2001 Share Posted January 20, 2001 quote: Originally posted by sunnysal: I seem to rememeber that a lot of vintage McIntosh preamp and integrated amp equipment is equipped to derive this signal and send it to a center speaker...someone else will have to ring in on the Klipsch gizmo....regards, tony I have an old little kenwood amp wich has a "mono out" socket, controlled by the volume control (not sure about that tough...should verify). I suspect is could be used for that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted January 20, 2001 Share Posted January 20, 2001 Anyway, I don't like the idea of using a center channel speaker in a stereo set-up. First, it mixes informations from the left and right channels that shouldn't be mixed together: theorically, only the informations that are COMMON TO BOTH CHANNELS should be mixed together in a center channel (wich is what a proper pro-logic or DD processor does). If you have, say, a high-hat localized on the right channel, you don't want it to be on the center channel... What's more, you loose the "magic" of having a singer's voice localized center-stage, between the two speakers, just like coming out of the wall...with a center channel you just say "well, that's normal, there's a center speaker". Just my thoughts anyway Frans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 20, 2001 Share Posted January 20, 2001 Hi Guys, I am using the 3 speaker deal exactly as you describe. I have two Belle Klipsch 16 feet apart with a Cornwall right in the middle. I am sitting about 10 feet directly in front of the Cornwall. Without the middle speaker I would have a hole in the middle. The system brings the center into focus and makes a smooth wall of sound if the center speaker is set at the right level. I am running 2 seperate amps. The middle amp is run from two resistors leading from the Left and Right preamp outputs. That's all it takes, 2 resistors in a little box! The middle speaker is set -2 dB below the flanks. Since the Cornwall is about 6 dB less efficient than the Belles, that comes to about -8 dB lower. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvan Posted January 20, 2001 Share Posted January 20, 2001 Thanks Al, I've asked several Klipsch dealers about the center speaker setup I had heard PWK recommended in bygone days...none knew of it and couldn't suggest how to connect it. My question, since the center spkr is used to "fill" the image, and isquite low level compared to the mains, can I get away with a Heresy or Cornwall or less to blend with my Khorns? Or MUST I have something as fast (and expensive) as LaScala or Khorn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 21, 2001 Share Posted January 21, 2001 A Heresy will work fine between Khorns. I think the Cornwall was designed initially for that very purpose! Al K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted January 21, 2001 Share Posted January 21, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Al Klappenberger: A Heresy will work fine between Khorns. I think the Cornwall was designed initially for that very purpose! Al K Yep, that's true Al, never thought about that, but now that you say that, the "Cornwall" name could come from its placement: on the WALL between the CORNers?? why not? Frans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted January 21, 2001 Share Posted January 21, 2001 Hole in the middle? Gee, I don't hear it. My Khorns are easily 20' apart, and I have a soundstage as wide as the Sahara desert... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted January 21, 2001 Share Posted January 21, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Randy Bey: Hole in the middle? Gee, I don't hear it. My Khorns are easily 20' apart, and I have a soundstage as wide as the Sahara desert... It depends on how far you're sitting from your speakers while listening; if you're sitting a distance shorter than the distance between the speakers, you generally get a hole in the middle of the soundstage. Generally... Frans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty65 Posted January 21, 2001 Share Posted January 21, 2001 The Heresy was originally designed for the center channel, however PWK designed the belle Klipsch as the preferred center channel between two Klipschorns to match the horn loaded bass and low distortion characteristic of the klipschorn. Dope from Hope contains an article for deriving the center channel using resistors and a potentionmeter. Its amazing the wall of sound you get by using the center channel. Dan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istari Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 Paul was a very faithful fan of the 3 channel speaker set up. He wrote several technical papers regarding this subject, specifically: Stereohonic Sound with Two Tracks, Three Chanels by Means of a Phantom Circuit April 1958 Wide Stage Stereo July-August 1959 Experiments and Experiences in Stereo May-June 1960 The first Article uses a model "H" (Heresy???) as a Center Channel and there is a picture of the setup entitled - Proper Speaker placement for 3 Channel Wide Stage Stereo is shown in this photo of the STEREOPHONIC HOUSE, PHOENIX, ARIZONA. This photo uses a Cornwall as the center. Article #2 gives more reasoning for the center channel and has a picture of the 3 channel setup using a Cornwall speaker taken at the Brussels World's Fair of '58. Article #3 gives even more info and expounds on corner placement of the flanking speakers and the ability to use a speaker that doesn't have the low end extension of the flanking units. I will attempt to scan these articles and attach them to a message tomorrow. The following comment may date me but what the heck.... As I've pass thru the late 50's, then thru the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's, I've seen things come then go then come back again as something new & wonderful and never seen before. IE: clothing fashions, remakes of movies (yes even Star Trek, the Next Generation was mostly a rehash of the original Star Trek episodes) and so forth... I can't help but be amazed at the futuristic thinking tha PWK displayed in the design of his Heritage Speaker Line (all of these were "Digital Ready" decades before Digital was even thought of in audio)and of his use of a Center Channel for focus in a wide stage, multi channel music reproduction system. Do you suppose that the latest breed of audio engineers are trying to pull some wool over the less informed public's eyes... While the electronic process of surround sound may be gee whizz, the principle is not... Most people do not know that the first Fantasia movie (cir 1940) is The First Movie to utilize surround sound. LONG LIVE PAUL WILBUR KLIPSCH !!!!!!!!!!!!! You new guys (new engineers) take a back seat...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberman9000 Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 Three channel must have been a big thing in the early 60's. Sunnysal wrote he remembered vintage Macs having a center outputs and Fisher made tube receivers, amps, and integrated with center outs. The X1000 has a separate volume control for the center channel. I would be interested in reading 'The Hobbit' articles. When I lived in Mississippi I had a friend named 'The Hobbit'or 'T.H.'for short. Trip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty65 Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 If you can get your hands on a McIntosh C27 preamplifier it has a center channel output. Paul sure was ahead of his time. They just seem to give it new names today. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Hi guys, If anybody is interested, here's the rig I am using to mix 2 channels to a third. The circuit is simply a 33K resistor from each input to the center output. I also have a 12K resistor from the center output to ground. This just swamps out any capacity associated with cable to the center amp by lowering the impedance. The left and right outputs are connected directly to the left and right inputs. They just pass right through the box. Of course, three sperate amplifiers are needed. Each amp will require a level (volume) control to balance up the system too. Al K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Marty65: If you can get your hands on a McIntosh C27 preamplifier it has a center channel output. Paul sure was ahead of his time. They just seem to give it new names today. Dan Except the actual "3 channels" process uses a processor that directs only the informations common on both channels to a center channel; PWK system only mixes EVERYTHING what's found on both channels; that's why i don't like the idea...it's a bit like using an amp that would have a very bad channel separation. That said, i can understand some people like the effect it has on the sound. After all, what's great with this hobby is that you can do it the way you like it Frans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Frans, Not true! That mixer scheme is more than just "mono" to the middle speaker. if you use a mono signal as a reference, that is a signal that is equal level on both left and right, a signal that is on the left or right ONLY will be down 6 dB on the center speaker by comparison. This does not restrict the stereo separation AT ALL. It in fact inhances it! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 nice box al! did you do the machining for it, or buy it off the shelf? regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Tony, Neither! This was one of a box full of filter "housings" that were rejects from the filter company I used to work for. They were rejected becasue the plating was not good enough quality to be used. They were thrown out and I just did some dumpster diving for them! AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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