Scott 299 & Forte IIs - Review from WI

[boomac]

The Scott 299 NosValves Rebuild arrived back on June 19th. Craig, met the timetable that he had suggested and I was impressed with the packing. Because of limited time and a fair amount of travel, I didn't get it hooked up until a couple of weekends ago. First, thanks to John Malotky for stopping by and helping to bias the amp. In the near future, I will take the 299 over to John's to match it up with his 83 khorns.

It would be great if I had more audio experience. This review will not, therefore, be technical in nature but rather based on what we have been hearing.

Scott 299 NosValves Rebuild

Klipsch Forte II Oiled Walnut Speakers

Sony C601 ES CD Changer

The clarity is significant. Instruments sound very real and we do, in fact, hear things that we never heard with our other equipment. (Yamaha RX 396, Tandberg 2045) On certain CDs it's as close to live as I have ever been. We currently have the system set up in the family room with the Forte II's about 8" away from the walls. Only one speaker is sort of in a corner. They are about 9-10 feet apart and there is a sweet spot on the sofa. My wife, who has always been happy listening to a shelf system, has come alive. The first night I introduced her to the 299, she sat and listened to Stairway to Heaven five times. "WAF makes drastic climb into the positive." She can't believe the sound and I doubt she will ever question another audio purchase. Now, if I can only get her to like "hard bop."

Last night we moved the 299 and Forte IIs upstairs in my daughter's bed room. (She is back to college.) It's about 12' X 14' and we have the speakers on the short wall about 7-8 feet apart. The sound staging is slightly better downstairs but overall,I enjoy the sound in the smaller and more enclosed area.

The music selections described here are favorites that I am most familiar with.

The Sidewinder - Lee Morgan: Clear and clean with excellent instrument separation. No brightness. The sound is fuller and warmer than with my other gear.

Way out West Sonny Rollins: Great separation and very live sound.

Waltz for Debbie Bill Evans: Close you eyes, enjoy a CC & soda and youre Live at the Village Vanguard.

Against the Grain Acoustic Alchemy: The Tandberg was an improvement over the Yamaha and the Scott 299 is an improvement over the Tandberg. The piano, on some of the cuts, can get bright. The 299 softens and warms the sound quite a bit.

Panorama Craig Chaquico: Here again the sound can get bright on my SS receivers. The 299 does warm it up and it can be listened to at a greater volume.

Slowing Down the World Chris Botti: An excellent recording that is warmer overall with the 299. The instrument separation is also more noticeable with the Scott.

I like Diana Krall and we have listened to several of her CDs. Here, even with the 299, there are some problem areas. Like jhawk92, I notice a slight harshness in several tracks. In Lets Face the Music and Dance, words that end in ce and s sounds just arent smooth. I tried it on another system, (Pioneer SX 1000 TW Receiver and Pioneer CS 77 Speakers & same CD changer) and the results were similar. This leads me to believe that the sounds are more inherent to the actual recording than as a result of what the equipment is reproducing.

A friend brought over a CD featuring various Puccini Arias. He has listened to this particular CD many times but said he has never heard it like this. He was very impressed and mentioned he may have to look into tube amplification and Klipsch Speakers.

Several other forum members indicated minor problems with balancing the speakers on the Scotts. With the balance control centered at 12 oclock, there may be a slight edge to one side but I think it may have more to do with the recordings than the amp.

Most of our listening has been flat. No increase or decrease in base or treble has been necessary. The bass is tight and realistic. The drum sound in Life in the Fast Lane is dead on the money. I tried it with the 299 hooked up to the Forte IIs, the Quartets and my KG 2.5s. Although the Klipsch Speakers DID NOT all sound alike, they reproduced the sound with tight and outstanding bass.

At low volumes I like the loudness control/contour on. Since it disappears with volume, I leave it at the on position all the time. Its not that the sound isnt great with it off. I just prefer it on at the lower volume levels.

I would like to thank the forum in general for providing the opportunity to learn about tube amplification and other audio nuances. Thanks to Craig @ NosValves for the advice before and after purchase. My Scott 299 Amp and 314 Tuner arrived well packed in a timely fashion and in perfect working order. I think Craigs charges were reasonable and there is no buyers remorse here. I recommend NosValves. Thanks to MBM135 and Garymd for their individual input and advice. Thanks to all the contributors on the Jazz thread.

Less than six months ago I would have passed on a Scott Tube Amp at a garage sale. I wouldnt have looked twice at an LP with the name Lee Morgan or Sonny Clark on it. What a difference a few months can make. What a difference tubes can make!

[minn_male42]

"I like Diana Krall and we have listened to several of her CDs. Here, even with the 299, there are some problem areas. Like jhawk92, I notice a slight harshness in several tracks. In Lets Face the Music and Dance, words that end in ce and s sounds just arent smooth."

this cd in particular, because of the distortion that i heard in certain passages led me to change my two channel amplifer...

i started with a carver M-400t... then upgraded to a carver TFM-25.... and now to a dynaco SCA-35...(i use only the power amp section)

much less distortion and improved clarity... it's amazing what 17 watts per channel of tube amplification can do....

the rest of my collection is also much improved.....

[garymd]

I'm happy to hear you're enjoying the scott, Scott. 2 reviews in 1 night (shows what Craig can do with these babys)! You will become more impressed each time you listen.

The WAF is amazing with these amps also which is a big plus. The scott crowd continues to grow and for good reason. Congrats on your new system because this amp makes everything you own seem new. I'm sure we'll be talking more in days to come. For now just enjoy.

[NOSValves]

Scott,

Great review your writing skills sound better then the amp most likely Two reviews in one night is hard to believe LOL !! I believe as the amp breaks in more and more even your Diana Krall will begin to tone down. The amps tend to be slightly edgy right after rebuild it takes about 100 hours of use to really shine. Although I believe a guy at the Chicago horn club meeting earlier this year had the same kind of complaint when listening to maybe the same CD on my 299B I wasn't in the room. But he is a 45 based 1 Watt SET guy and has probably never really heard the recording he likes so much (sorry I just couldn't help slipping that one in)

Craig

[Deang]

My favorite quote from Leo K -- "...new caps are cranky".

Oh yes, yes they are indeed, and Craig is dead on -- it takes about 100 hours.

[garymd]

I doubt I'm close to that 100 hour mark yet but mine has settled quite nicely already. Much less bright then when new. The great thing is that the brightness settles but the detail and clarity remain.

[NOSValves]

What really happens is the edge or brightness goes away and the detail opens up. As Mobile would say you gain Bloom Auricaps are well known to have a extended break-in period and another fine trait they have is they get out of the way and let the music play !! I think Mobile would call this transparency. Hey Dean am I proxy posting LOL !

Craig

[boomac]

I hear Jhawk92 talk about The Phantom of the Opera fairy often, so I had to go out and buy the CD. Like the late great Harry Carey used to say, "holy cow". After 7 hours of yard work, a cool shower and beverage, I took a seat in front of the Forte IIs and listened to the original cast recording. It was amazing and the sound staging was fantastic. Hard not to believe it was live. I had to turn it off after # 10, Notes.../Prima Donna, for dinner and company. Now the kid is watching a movie with his latest tag along and I'll have to wait till tomorrow to finish. I bet the 100 hours will go fast.

[jhawk92]

Boom-

Great initial review. I am seeing the same thing on my side as well. And to think we were both looking at that combo on eBay...you just beat me to it. I'm happy with the one I got, so I'd say we both won!

Good to know that your audition of Diana Krall has the same experience. Maybe it is the CD? I guess I should get that one to have here and compare. Yeah, that Phantom CD set is great. Nothing like live concert sound in your living room. I almost am disappointed when I see it live, since the sound is much better at home. The Overature is great, and the Phantom/Christine duet, track 6 I think, is incredible. That is were I started hearing differences in tubes vs. SS.

So far, all my listening has been with no changes in bass/treble. I'll have to try out "Life in the Fast Lane" as that is one of my reference songs. I'll be playing around with loudness also, but I think I may be like you, on at lower levels. Yep, tubes and Klipsch is a wonderful combo. Lots of people here to thank for that. Then again, my wallet is sure alot lighter in the 3 years I've been here.

Gary-

I would think yours is close to 100hrs by now. I'm thinking of trying to keep a log so I can see when the 100 number passes, just for fun.

Craig-

I promise, Boom and I didn't conspire to double up on the same day. But it sure goes to show how good things are coming from you. Thanks for all your help and advice.

DeanG-

So I gotta ask...what would have made you sell your 299 in the first place?? It's good stuff and I'd want to hang onto it for a long time. No offense, but it sure is sweet!

[garymd]

After some quick calculations, I'm probably past the 100 hours by now. Time flys......

[NOSValves]

jhawk9,

These responses is what makes it all worth while. No thanks are required. But your welcome rest assured.

Old Deanomister never hangs onto anything I figured you knew that by now LOL !! heck he sold two of them. I refuse to do anymore work for him because he just sells it

Craig

[jhawk92]

Craig-

Ok, then if you are ever in the area, swing by and I'll treat you to dinner and an audition.

[mace]

Nice review of the 299.

With my volume knob at 9 or 10 o'clock, I can't get 100% satisfaction with the loudness control. When it's on the bass sounds a bit boomy and loose. When it's off the tone sounds a little flatter. I've tried adjusting the tone controls but they aren't on the same frequency as the loudness circuit... speaking of which: Does anyone know what frequencies the "bass", "treble" and "loudness" affect? I'll have to break out the test CD and see, I guess. I know my room has a lot of affect on bass boominess as well.

My balance shifts around as well, depending on where the volume knob is. Apparantly, this is unavoidable.

One thing I've noticed is once in a while the Scott will put out a slight "pop" in one channel or the other (at random). It is not in my source material because when I hear it, I go back and listen to the passage again and there is not "pop". I hear this same "pop" about 30 seconds after turning the amp on, when the tubes are just getting warm and the lights come on. I never had such pops with my first 299 so I'm sure it isn't my electrical system. Anyone have any thoughts?

As far as hearing things you've never heard with the detail, I've found the same with my 299. Although I take such observations with a grain of salt. One day late at work I was listening to MP3's on my el crappo computer speakers. I had it up pretty loud. I was listening to a slow guitar solo with some feedback, in a very familiar song (Dream Theater, "Once in a Live Time", Disk 2, track 7). It was the weirdest thing. I heard some sonics in the solo which I'd never heard before! Since then I've realized that when you hear new things in a sound system, it doesn't mean it's better, it only means the sound system is different than what you had before. I mean, my computer speakers should have come with a Tylenol dispenser they sound that terrible (and they are Apple branded, oh my!). But, I do hear things with them I "never heard before", simply because they are so mid-rangy and tinny.

Mace

[boomac]

The next time I have a chance to sit and listen, I'll take closer notice of the loudness control. If I remember, by 9 or 10 O'clock on the volume dial, my loudness is probably off. It may be best to stay seated in the sweet spot and let someone else make the adjustments with a few different tunes. I'll try it later today. By 11 or 12 O'clock, on the volume dial and with most music, my Forte IIs are cranking pretty loud. Although I enjoy music played loudly, I am no kid anymore and you may have to take that into consideration.

I have not experienced any pops or other noises while the 299 is warming up. I'm sure someone, on the forum, will address that issue shortly.

[NOSValves]

The pops are momentary connection loss most likely right at the tube pins. Get some DeoXit or Raido shack tuner cleaner . Spray some in the lid of the can and take out each tube and dunk them in the solution. Spray a small amount directly into the tube pins or use a toothpic to put a drop in each pin hole. You did a bunch of tube rolling in this amp and most likely one of the tubes is having a momentary connection loss. Also you can gently and slightly bend the tube in or out to make them grab the socket better. I bet the pop dissapears. Also do the same to your RCA jacks on the back it can happen there also.

Craig

PS you have Cornwalls don't you ?

[ssh]

boomac,

Sounds like fun to me.On my first couple of listens to the 299, my jaw was dropped & I was giggly. Craig does make lots of people very happy.I've been looking forward to reading what your response would be.Glad about the WAF, too!It looks like you're making your way through the jazz list.It's great to be able to take good advice & like it.

SSH

[mace]

Craig,

Actually, the thing also pops when I move any of the selector knobs (the input and the channel selectors). The volume of these pops depends on where the volume knob is at. In other words, if the volume knob is at 12 o'clock, the pop is loud, if volume is at 7 o'clock, pop is soft. Sometimes the amp also pops when I turn it off.

These pops are better than the buzz/hum. I'd still like to get rid of them, though.

Yes, I have Cornwalls.

Others: As far as WAF, I have next to none for the Scott. I often get told to "turn off that thing with the hot sticks!". There seems to be a constant fear of burning the house down or kids getting burned to a crisp whenever the hot sticks are on. Soundwise, nothing. In fact, once, when A/B/C-ing Boston Acoustics T-930 (3 way towers) to the Cornwalls to the KLF-30s, she picked the Bostons as sounding better than either Klipsch.

Mace

[NOSValves]

Sounds like its possibly the first pesky capacitor on the input selector switch is failing on us. If it becomes a large problem ship it back I'll fix it at no charge. But you could give them a large shot of DeoXit also while turning them vigorously you do these from the inside of the amp. If you look closely at the back side of the controls you will see the contacts. Spray the heck out of it while turning and then let it dry. It could be right in the contacts.

Craig

[mark1101]

I also just acquired a recently rebuilt 299a off Ebay. This was the amp that caused all that BS.

I had been in touch with Craig about it and he was kind enough to call me long distance (on his dime) and spend roughly 2 hours total over a couple of days helping measure all the critical voltages in the amp, and checking the bias.

I would have just sent him the amp, but I forwarded him some digital pictures of the chassis and he commented that it looked good to go. So we just did the checks to be sure.

This is nobody's business, but Craig did not ask for a dime, and over a couple of hours provided me a complete refresher course in tube electonics and professional instruction with safety in mind. This had to be a pain for him, but he said NOT to send him the amp because it checked out OK. The cans were beefed up with under chassis caps instead of being replaced and Craig commented on that point.

But I'll say this. The amp came from Mike Urban (an antique radio restorer). He's on the web. I have tested it thoroughly and played the hell out of it (carefully). I have respect for the vintage nature but trust me I have used this thing. The bias was slightly off, and Craig helped me correct it. I have noticed it definitely runs a little cooler now. The sound has to be near perfect as it could be. Impressive! No hiss, no hum, speakers are completely silent between tunes. Nice work by Mike Urban and an accurate representation of the unit on EBay. And Craig provided his expertise and honesty to help me verify the unit before I tried it.

Anyhow, my comments were that there is no tape monitor loop which made it impossible to use my equalizer. There were not enough inputs for all my equipment either. I too was unsatisfied with the combinations achieved with the channels tone controls and / or loudness. But, the clarity of the amp is superb. So, here's what I did.

I used my old preamp and left all my components connected to it including the EQ. Preamp out into tape in on the Scott. Problem solved.

Now I have the benefit of my EQ which I felt was essential. I run the corns and Las in parallel on 4 ohms (not really recommended) use the loudness switch with a hair of EQ and a volume of about 9 - 10 o'clock. When I really want it to play, I turn off the loudness switch and go to around 11 - 12 o'clock. I've never had it past there.

My inital tests of the amp were progressive on the volume timewise until I hit 12 o'clock over an hour or so. Then I popped 5 CDs into the changer and periodically checked things closely. After 6 hours like that I knew the amp was a good one. It continuously sounded great.

I also recently purchased a 222b. I haven't checked it out yet, but looks like a candidate for a fresh rebuild. Craig will be receiving that one soon for an auricap job (so get the parts ready!). Then, I can run the preamp outputs into each amp, and have one pair of speakers on the 222 and one on the 299. I know that will be much better because some of my intial tests were done at 8 ohms with just Las. That was very sweet.

So far, that's been my experience with the new 299. Hopefully, when I get finished I will still have $$ for Christmas. Hurts so good.