edster00 Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Thanks Stan, the room isn't ideal thus the false corners for the K-horns. It sounds pretty nice to me. The other furniture consists of two Ekornes chairs and two side tables...pretty simple. Mike, I don't feel bad about the TV, I just get some grief for it once in awhile. I do enjoy watching a movie or a music video once in awhile. I sometimes listen to tunes while watching sports or something, with the TV volume turned off. I do have a Klipsch loaded HT upstairs for hard core movies and surround sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Ed: I see that you have got some of those echo-busters in the corners of your room. Room treatment is really an area I know nothing about beyond hanging some hand-woven rugs on the wall. I've got nothing in the corners, nothing on the opposite wall, nor in the the back corners. Can you offer some insight into maybe a good way to start experimenting? These products got good reviews in the most recent Stereophile, and they don't seem too overly priced. I wonder if I could maybe make something that would look half-way decent and do the same thing... Erik ...your room looks incredible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Erik, Did you get my B.C. e-mail with photo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Erik, I don't know all that much about room acoustics. I bought the "Echo Busters" at auction on AudiogoN, right after 9/11/01, when they were raising money for charities after the WTC attack. I knew we were building the room and I wanted some treatments. I followed some of the recommendations that came with the EB treatments. My room was really lively before the treatments and sounds much better now. I am sure I need to do more tweaking but I really don't know how to go about it properly. There are lots of DIY plans around that you could make stuff, I'll see if I can find some links. Most of the stuff hanging on my walls are just wooden frames with cotton batting (or something similar) inside covered with fabric...pretty easy to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Since my brother just bought his JoLida JD 202A integrated tube amp for his audio system, now I'm hankerin' for a lovely SET amp for my Cornwalls (alas, my finances won't permit it yet). But I'm concerned about power...I like playing pipe organ recordings rather loud (sometimes near "live" levels), and I just don't see how I can do that with a Moondog or Horus. Is SET out of the question for me? Or am I better off with a PP 40+ watt tube amp instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 ---------------- On 9/15/2003 7:10:27 PM jt1stcav wrote: Since my brother just bought his JoLida JD 202A integrated tube amp for his audio system, now I'm hankerin' for a lovely SET amp for my Cornwalls (alas, my finances won't permit it yet). But I'm concerned about power...I like playing pipe organ recordings rather loud (sometimes near "live" levels), and I just don't see how I can do that with a Moondog or Horus. Is SET out of the question for me? ---------------- Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 I also really love pipe organs, and I find that they may be rather hard to reproduce with the kind of authority you may be looking for. Thanks for your thoughts on that Ed. You are way ahead of me in all of that, but I think I might experimenting a bit here and there. Kevin: Gosh, it has been just too busy of a day, I got a couple of notes from you, and Marie said she forwarded one from today to me at school. I just didn't have time to check that out. When I got home, I just looked at new email, thinking I had already seen everything else in the inbox. I will go right now and have a look at that! And then to bed... Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 The huge organ in the rather small Methuen hall gets so loud I have earplugs (advertised to reduce, not stop, sound) for the few times per concert when the artist decides to demonstrate just how loud the instrument can be. Without the earplugs, my hearing distorts the sound so badly I can no longer hear the notes that are being played. The same is true for movie theaters and rock concerts. So, for me, maximum useable volume is just less than those sounds. I have only had trouble at a live orchestra concert when there were nine trumpets playing at once in a piece by Janacek. I'm trying to establish an acoustic reference. When I want to listen to full orchestra at volumes I would hear in a good seat in a good concert hall, with my 101dB Chorus-IIs, the 3.5 Watt 2A3 SET can do it about 75% of the time. For something like the Organ symphony by Saint-Saens, I switch to the 6 Watt P6D and in that case, my ears always give out first. With something less spectrally spread out .. small combos, solo piano, violin, etc. the power is more focused into a more narrow spectrum and my ears quit way before 3.5 Watts. When I listen to solo organ, and all the reeds cut in, I just turn it down. The fact is, even if my system can produce the Methuen organ, played wide open at concer level, I can't hear it. Again with big pipe organs, at volumes I can tolerate, the 2A3 SET is fine 75% of the time. Now, I don't listen to huge pipe organs or orchestras all the time. Most of the time I listen to chamber music. With Chamber music the SET is fully in its element and its capability for detail and dynamic range (including very very quiet (ever heard a string quartet play very very quiet?)) is fully utilized. What that means is, perhaps 5% of the time, or less, I want a little more power than my 2A3 delivers. In those cases I switch amps (easy for me, the P6D is the size of 2 packs of cigarettes). With a set of 99dB Cornwalls maybe an 8 Watt 300B amp would be a better compromise for low end detail and all you need for 90% of the time. For the other 10% use a pp or Parasound "Zamp" or whatever. Just some reference, hope it helps. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Leo: Your taste in music is so very like my own! Small ensemble Baroque and chamber music seem to be just made for SETs. Saint-saens is also a favorite! See ya, Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 That's what I was afraid of. It was never even an afterthought with the McIntosh MC250, at only 50WPC (even more so with the MC2100 and MC7200 amps, at 100 and 200 watts respectably). Granted, I don't always listen to music at even 90dB or more, but I do enjoy a good Bach Prelude and Fugue, a Widor Organ Symphony, or even Lynn Larson playing showtunes on a mighty WurliTzer theatre organ at higher levels than usual. Of course if I'm listening to Bach's B-Minor Mass, Mozart's Requiem, Handel's Water Music, or Aaron Copeland's Billy the Kid Suite, the music isn't always played at such large crescendos as some organ pieces at grande tutti. Guess if I ever go the tube route, I'm better off with such PP amps from Cary Audio, JoLida, McIntosh, Audio Research, conrad-johnson, or vintage H.H. Scott, EICO, Dynaco, or Marantz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 ---------------- On 9/11/2003 7:13:05 PM leok wrote: The TJ 300B/2.5v is the only 300B I've heard. Never heard one trying to do 8 Watts. But the TJ really sounded sloppy (interesting, and even fun sometimes, but not at all accurate) in the stock Moondog and later with the parafeed circuit. When I added the damping everything straightened out for all the tubes, including the TJ. Now it's almost a tossup. The RCA sounds a little more accurate, but sometimes almost clinical. Still, on sibilances, a very good test, the RCA is a bit cleaner. What strikes me is that the KenRad, RCA, and TJ all sound very good now, and I think it's because the environment is more stable. And, that's what I would expect. After all, the caracteristics and loadlines are very close. What all that tells me is that maybe some of the issues with 8 Watt 300B amps are the amps, not as much the tubes .. and with a little tweaking, they could fall right into line for someone who wants another few Watts. ---------------- The problem early on with the TJs appeared to be a thickness to the bottom end that did not keep pace with the relatively faster top end, strange effects were noted on Kelly's ruthlessly revealing gear the day we sampled them. To keep this in perspective the TJs were recent arrivals with >100 hours burn in. Given time they seem to have balanced out across the spectrum. Recently I encountered a *very* nice synergy pairing the TJ with the VT-231 JAN-6SN7GT Sylvania green label, which IMO didn't really do much for me with other 2A3 types, so it's been getting a bit more play time. If the moondogs are firing on all cylinders will let Kelly have another take on these the first weekend in October. As for the general 2A3 vs 300B (8 watts) debate, the 2A3 is usually described as having a better midrange, but both can be difficult to compare with each other as the sound is subjectively different. The TJ 300B/2.5v however is capable of making interesting comparisons with any 2A3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 Well, you are right in that I think the TJ 300B/2.5v is an interesting tube and I would have a pair for the sonic flavor if they didnt cost so much. At the price, and in the amps I have heard them in, I dont think they rank up there with the other choices. I would actually have a pair of the rather soul-free KR-2A3 if they werent so expensive either. I think this tube is one of the least involving 2A3 out there but with good extension. Still, where is the midrange? The bargain leader is still the Sovtek 2A3 although I havent heard the latest Valve Art 2A3. My midrange favorite has to be the vintage RCA JAN 2A3 Black Plates. The TJ Meshplate 300b/2.5v does have some rich midrange but introduces that lack of focus element that is a major detraction in my view. I also thought they were somewhat more slow sounding. Perhaps with more breakin they might get better so I would be happy to give them another go around the next time you are in town. Indeed, I wouldnt mind getting another go with the Wright 2A3 Monos again. Of course, the real tube I want to sample on this go round is the vintage 2A3 Meshplates, something I have yet to hear in my system; I know you have been loving those beasts so the comparison will be interesting. The Moondogs are going to get worked on this week after some measurements are taken. Although the trial with Leok's nifty little P6D digital has been fun, I am yearning for the Moondogs again. It's been several months since I have had them fired up. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 ---------------- As for the general 2A3 vs 300B (8 watts) debate, the 2A3 is usually described as having a better midrange, but both can be difficult to compare with each other as the sound is subjectively different. The TJ 300B/2.5v however is capable of making interesting comparisons with any 2A3. ---------------- Taddeo, You'll agree with me that you shouldn't drive a Porsche with an automatic transmission. In the same spirit, you shouldn't drive a 300B under a 2A3 operating point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 Admittedly the TJ 2.5v is an uncommon power triode, ultimately perhaps it's all that glowing meshhhhh that gives it intrigue, but heck, I too can drive fast the racing Porsche with Tiptronic S transmission.. however as all 2A3 thermionic fiends should know by heart, it's those early monoplates that really put a spring in your step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 ---------------- On 9/20/2003 10:51:29 PM Are Friends Electric wrote: however as all 2A3 thermionic fiends should know by heart, it's those early monoplates that really put a spring in your step. ---------------- A pair of these early monoplates will get you a SERIOUS OPT upgrade... Let alone two pairs! OPTs will last longer too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Right now, I cant believe how robust Sovtek 2A3 are. I have had them in and out of my amps, mostly in when leaving on all the time and they STILL measure very well. This is amazing considering how the Moondogs are configured running a wee bit more than the conservative 250v recommended by the RCA manual. Still, I think the 2A3 is a more robust tube than that lets on. But the Sovtek are VERY rugged. I cant estimate how many hours I have had on these beasts but it's WAY more than most would do in the same time period considering I listen to my amps every day, on an average of 4-5 hours or more for over 3 years (not to mention the full power on aspect of Class A - the MD are usualyl left on for months or weeks at a time). While I love the RCA Black Plates, they are not up to this type of use and are used sparingly. I keep forgetting that Tad's Wright 2A3 Monos are Class A1 sliding bias (I believe). kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 (not to mention the full power on aspect of Class A - the MD are usualyl left on for months or weeks at a time). This might be a clue as to why one is currently out of service heh !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Considering this amps are from 1997 and have never had a problem, I think that's a pretty good record. They have mostly been "on" the entire time here with no tubes needing replacement. I have had so little gear need work since doing this route: zero SS amps since 82 and two tube amps in that whole time, one blowing at Svetlana at the depression of standby and my Moondog getting an arc in the rectifier on power up. It will actually run ok but the arc worried me so I am doing measurements before I mess with my last batch of Mullard GZ-37. Ironically, I replace my tubes a lot less often than most of my friends even though I use my gear MANY times more. I equate much of this with less turn off/turn on transients, something that is not good for ENGINES or gear. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuffclean Posted September 21, 2003 Author Share Posted September 21, 2003 Hi Guys, EICO HF-81 after re-tubing is sounding very sweet. Expect delivery of Audio Research SP 3A-1 Pre-Amplifier this week. Now the search is on for a 2a3 SET amp. Short list is: 1) Horus Silver 2a3 w/Magnequest Cobalt OPT 2) Moondogs 2a3 w/Mangequest Transformer 3) Welbourne DRD 2a3 w/tube rectification 4) McIntosh MC-30 Hoping to arrange a listening session for Horus and Moondogs soon. DRD consideration will be a leap of faith. The upgrade journey continues. TT & Vinyl on the horizon. Stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Well I say your lucky more then anything. I personally believe leaving any tube amp on unattended for long periods is reckless abandonment and the amps should be put into a "Tube Amp Protective Service" pending a amp owner fitness hearing (I will provide the storage service free Ugly things can and do happen when your not there to pull the plug. You wouldn't believe how many times I've been messing around inside a amp and short to chassis blow the house fuse but the amps fuse didn't even respond ! When this happens I usually shut the shop down and say "time for a break too tired to be working" Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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