Cuffclean Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Hello Everyone, Seeking recommendations on a system upgrade. Current set-up is: 1) Jolida 502B converted to triode running EL 34's. Tweaked with fast recovery diodes, Jensen PIO caps, Tant resistors, DACT stepped attentuator, etc. 2) Ah! Tjoeb '99 - tweaked 3) Klipsch Cornwall II's Recently took delivery of a refurbished EICO HF-81 from NOSValves. Currently re-tubing (see Audio Asylum post - Cuffclean). Soon to take delivery of a Audio Research SP-3A-1 Pre-Amp. Considering matching this with a set of Welbourne Moondogs. Seeking recommendations on the best SET amp to compliment this system. What will mate well with the SP 3A-1? Expert advice sought. Stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 A beautiful pair of Paramour Mesh 2A3s come to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuffclean Posted September 10, 2003 Author Share Posted September 10, 2003 Jean-Francois Lessard's Horus 2A3 Silver Parafeed Monoblock Amplifier with Cobalt Transformers were my wish. Unfortunatley, he sold these before I had the coin to purchase. Also, thought about Jeff Korenff's 45's. Just don't know if these will drive the Cornwalls. Any other thoughts?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 ---------------- On 9/10/2003 10:14:00 PM Cuffclean wrote: Jean-Francois Lessard's Horus 2A3 Silver Parafeed Monoblock Amplifier with Cobalt Transformers were my wish. Unfortunatley, he sold these before I had the coin to purchase. Also, thought about Jeff Korenff's 45's. Just don't know if these will drive the Cornwalls. Any other thoughts?? ---------------- For sure we need a guinea pig for Welborne DRD 2A3... I don't really think the 45 would drive the Cornwalls with aplomb. Unless the room is small and you listen in nearfield (and you limit your musical choice). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuffclean Posted September 10, 2003 Author Share Posted September 10, 2003 Comme ca va Monsieur Lessard, Good to hear from you again. Your creations are still on my wish list. Seriously thinking about being patient and just waitin for another opportunity, N'est-ce pas? So, ya think the Welbourne DRD's would be preferrable over the Moondogs? Reasons? Stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I think the Welborne Labs DRD-2A3 would also be a fine choice as well, but would probably opt for the tube rectification solution over the SS, even if more expensive, this for the extra smoothness and lack of SS artifacts (although Welborne pulls out the stops with good SS implementation. Give me tube though any day). kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 What about having Erik Mandaville build you something along the lines of a Horus or whatever ? I thought he was offering his services and he surely can do a nice job. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 ---------------- On 9/10/2003 11:08:44 PM Cuffclean wrote: Comme ca va Monsieur Lessard, Good to hear from you again. Your creations are still on my wish list. Seriously thinking about being patient and just waitin for another opportunity, N'est-ce pas? So, ya think the Welbourne DRD's would be preferrable over the Moondogs? Reasons? Stan ---------------- Hi! Noticed I use the word "guinea pig" as I don't have actually ever heard one. I have good feeling about its use of a grid choke on the power tube. I cannot really say if it would be preferable over a Moondog. My guess is that Ron did put this product out in an attempt to sell another round of kits to his devotees more than in an desire to put out something better. I guess reviews will pop up here and there but until now assembled DRD owners have been a bit quiet. A used Moondog would be a sure bet as this is a classic and proven design. The nice thing about the Moondog is that it can be easily modified to accomodate a 300B providing you don't run the 300B to hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I vote for the Wellborne DRD also. As usual, I would want to try a thing or two with the design, and if, after 6 months of listening, you had an issue or two, mods could be made. But it is a solid platform, and may be perfect as is. However, the Cornwalls are a 99dB speaker, right. Would you want 300B instead of 2A3? Iyou have power to spare you could configure it for 4 Ohms and place 10 Ohms in parallel with the speaker. I'm using a TJ Meshpate 300B in my parafeed Moondog right now. I have done some work getting things right with this setup, but the 300B is performing right up there with the 2A3s .. even the RCA (which in some ways edges it out in detail). leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Here is a link to an early review of the Welborne DRD 300B factory assembled amps written by a forum member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Leo, I guess you have done some work since I found that same TJ 300B/2.5v tube a sonic disappointment compared to the Sovtek and even more to the RCA. It sounded very dimensional but lacking in focus and inner detail, this via the Moondogs or the Wrights (on Cornwalls and Silverline Sonata II). So you like this 300B/2.5v? I still prefre the 2A3 to the 300B on the whole. I actually think the 2A3 is the more natural of the two in most amplifiers, although the way either is driven obviously plays a role. I find the 2A3 bottom BETTER than the 300B actually. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Kelly, The TJ 300B/2.5v is the only 300B I've heard. Never heard one trying to do 8 Watts. But the TJ really sounded sloppy (interesting, and even fun sometimes, but not at all accurate) in the stock Moondog and later with the parafeed circuit. When I added the damping everything straightened out for all the tubes, including the TJ. Now it's almost a tossup. The RCA sounds a little more accurate, but sometimes almost clinical. Still, on sibilances, a very good test, the RCA is a bit cleaner. What strikes me is that the KenRad, RCA, and TJ all sound very good now, and I think it's because the environment is more stable. And, that's what I would expect. After all, the caracteristics and loadlines are very close. What all that tells me is that maybe some of the issues with 8 Watt 300B amps are the amps, not as much the tubes .. and with a little tweaking, they could fall right into line for someone who wants another few Watts. Also, after my experience with the Chorus-IIs, I'm beginning to think that with these low power no feedback implementations, unless an amp is made for the speaker it's being used with, some tweaks will probably be in order. Either do that or go to feedback, but that's another set of problems that are even harder for me to understand. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Craig: I sincerely appreciate that compliment. I worked really hard on my own version of the Horus, and it is one amplifier that I have not been inclined to do copious amounts of modification. I have been very curious to incorporate solid state rectification on it, as I have first hand experience using both SS and hollow-state rectifiers in the same design. Indeed there are advantages and disadvantages for both, although I would discuss at length whether one is intrinsically better than the other. Given the absolutely enormous variety in the manner in which different people will perceive, process and interpret a common vibration of the air, it is impossible to difinitively say that SS rectification is better or worse than a tube. Tubes rectifiers can get hot as hell, and heat is one of the main reasons components can deteriorate and fail. For the DRD, Eliano's premise (whether we may entirely agree with it or not)for using series SS diodes had primarily to do with two factors: 1) that tube rectifiers require a good bit of current and therefore extra power consumption and heat, and 2)that because of the cathode connection on the output there is (most likely) very little chance that audio will be influenced by PSU artifacts. I personally think there is every reason to believe that the DRD will perform as well, if perhaps not better, than the previous Moondog. Except for the output stage, the DRD is not unlike the Horus or many other Parafeed amplifiers. The DRD also uses a choke-loaded grid on the 2A3, which I have come to very much like in the Horus. As I rebuild my Moondogs, I plan to also use a grid choke on the output. We have also liked the 'Ultrapath' or WE connection enough to use on some of our own amplifiers -- In two cases Moondogs (actually three, since I know of another who also did this after I wrote to him about it), as well as in the Horus. So I think there can be a very strong case for the DRD amp in either SS or tube rectified form. I would absolutely not dismiss the possibility of purchasing one with tube rectification, but I would try to find out as much as I could about both SS and tube rectifiers as used in this particular circuit before deciding on one or the other. This information would be, in my opinion, most accurately gleaned from those who have already built a DRD design. I haven't always agreed with Ron Welborne on things, but I consider him to be a very good craftsman, and he is a knowldgeable designer. We have on occasion referred to the Moondog as derivative, but that is nothing new. Recent trends in single-ended parallel feed designs are very, very strongly influenced by what has already been and gone, as is the 'Ultrapath' connection used by Eliano's DRD amplifier. I am not building the Horus amplifier for others I made an unexpected investment in the pair I now have (as shown), and plan to just hold on to them. I was a little intimidated by the financial aspect, as I didn't know what would come of it. And what has come of it is the best damn pair of monoblocks I have heard. They have been very carefully balanced out, and I plan to keep them for a long time. I have been very interested in the SS rectification issue, however, and I may eventually order, for experimental purposes, the SS replacement for the 5AR4. It's just a simple bridge rectifer installed in cylindrical envelope that plugs directly into the socket. Only the filament connections are not used, so power transformers would likely not run quite as warm. The advantage of tube rectifiers, is that they have a sort of built in soft-start feature, which is of course easier on the downstream components. But, to the individual interested in SETs, I suggest trying to contact Ron W., although one sometimes needs to work a bit for comprehensive explanations, which may in fact not happen! But read all the information on the Welborne website, including the forum. Ask many question of those who have built them, and then make a more informed choice about what you think might work best for you, the type of music you listen to, how loud you listen, etc. I just love the Horus, but from what I understand, Jeff is not building those anymore for reasons I entirely understand and respect. You might also consider a product from Bottlehead. From what I know of both, the sheer ruggedness, build quality, and parts selection of Welborne's products are going to be tough to beat -- except for maybe George Wright, who has also made a host of SET lovers happy with his 2A3 monoblocks. Tired. Craig -- that attachment is to give you another idea of what the IAG chassis looks like with a compliment of tubes. Be sure to buy yourself a sharp set of punches if you plan on doing that yourself! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 http://www.progressive-engineering.com/klipsch/erik_horus.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Why not make another sale for Ron! Hell, I can think of many reasons, still... here I go again, making yet another graphic. I sold more Moondogs than Ron did the last year he made the beasts! Too bad they were all used! heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 You should be on commission arrangement at least. - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 And last but not least... THE MOONDOG (top left - Edmond / Bottom - Mine) I believe ye olde Moondog still wins the best looking award. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Stan, before our recommendations can do more than tweak our own buttons, it will be necessary to understand what you want from your stereo. I think there are a nice pair of 600w amps available cheap to run your CWs with plenty o' headroom. It's critical to have those millisecond transients covered, and covered good. I think (this would tweak my buttons) that the CWs mated with the Eico and a better CD player would be the cat's meow. If that doesn't do enough for you, you really need to tell us more. Haven't heard AR, but some say they don't sound very ... musical. AR is a local company and I find it hard to fault them, but I guess I would hesistate to pick them out without a home trial first. Do you have any records? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I agree with Mobile that the Moondogs are some great looking amps. I thought I'd join in the Fun and post a picture of mine. I am close to ordering the DRD45's even though they are not as good lookin as the Moondogs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Heh...good post RAndy. Freak. Ole RAndy. Hey Stan, I am a little puzzled as to what made you pick the Audio Research SP-3a as well? Although an ok vintage piece and certainly better than some of the other Audio Research options, this is not exactly the best pairing with a SET amp. I have always found the Audio Research preamps more clinical and overly detailed. The SP-6c and the SP-8 versions were two of the only ones I find ok but even then, I dont know if either of those are best for SET either. Time to get on ye olde hamster wheel again and start lookin! heh.. I'll sell you my Moondogs if you say the magic words. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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