dodger Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I will try this once again. This is not only my observation. I hope that those I have met and have made similar comments will also post. In the past five (5) weeks, in my opinion, there have been more flame threads, inappropriate comments to serious posts and comments such as do not take posts too literally and arguing than in the entire time I have been posting. I understand there is humour, that is how we get through life. Arguing and personal comments are another. Yes Dodger is going off again and yes Doger saw the posts alluding to drug use BUT There have benn serious posts with flippant comments too often. It is also noted by the lack of posts by some of the Forum members. I think we can agree that there is NO absolute answer to whether SET or PUSH -PULL are the answers to all questions. There are too many factors to be considered, including personal taste. Room size, reflective walls, non-reflective walls, furnishings, type of music, room openings, floor coverings, changes in SPL as one moves away from the speaker are just a few of the things to be taken into account before an answer is given. But there have too many times lately that a thread has been started seriously, serious replies posted and mixed in, self serving or "comedic" replies have been thrown in. Now I get the part about who ME?? or you're taking this too seriously. Take the thread Apologies. Read it, note serious comments and then note flip replies, or note the continuation of some threads way too long. I don't want a love fest as was said before. I don't take any ONE person's comments as the only view. I started coming to this Forum to expand my knowledge base. There has been an increase in two (2) channel posting. Since having the last thread pulled, I have not posted anywhere near the number I did. If I lose cyber-friends over this, well, you weren't friends to begin with. I am embarressed over the replies to what amplifier should be used with Belles. My brother in Law is Jewish, I realized that it coud be putz with its meaning or like Mike Putzinski, a friend of mine. The poster did come back. If you wish to ban me, that's fine. If you wish to make fun of me that's also fine - It's been done by the best and I'm still standing. There is no ONE opinion and telling someone that well that's good but this is better. In language it's a turn-off and it seems an attempt to show one's superiority. I have learned litlle the past five weeks with flames, arguments, etc.. And for a comment - I am tired of seeing people get down on Craig, then send him their equipment for repair, the same with Ryan. As I said read Apologies, Greg had a statement that was serious to him, I had my own statements that were serious to me. I would write more, but I hope that those that have emailed, PM.d or that I've talked to would add their comments. If only those that disagree post, First Amendment applies. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKuziel Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I tend to agree, humor has its place. I have noticed too the flip comments to questions considered serious by the poster. Like the old saying goes " If you cant say somthing nice, don't say anything at all" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I think humor is good. For some reason, I cannot think of anything funny to write here. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Hello Dodger - your well thought out posts are generally a treat to read and well spoken. That said, playing the role of the moral, high road father figure will often bring out the children's indifference to your position and encourages a whole spate of indignation. As with children, the desire to be contrary may well over ride logic. It is an expected response instead of the unusual. I have been an active on line information exchanger since the bulletin boards starting in the 80s. This nameless, faceless forum interaction does let bunches of various background and character players participate. I have discovered that I can effectively find those that have real information to share and continually add to that group of advisors. Just as handily, I found that I can weed out the other end of the spectrum. My solution is the filter mechanism. Without that I would miss something important. Does that keep me from getting angry - nope. Does that mean I keep my electronic mouth shut - nope. But it does mean that I don't know of a better way yet to find experienced information on such a wide variety of topics as you can in forums such as this. Otherwise, I would surround myself with like thinking people and gradually be putting up walls to keep others out and starting to think that we (us like thinking folks) are the only right ones. What a dull boy I would become. So - what is my point (a question that I hear all too often)- The very thing that makes this forum a good place to exchange information with all opens the door to the rude, insensitive, ignorant, malicious and just plain obnoxious. I put them on my own 'do not call' list and move forward in search of knowledge. I relay my experience and knowledge as partial payment for what I gain. My sincerest apologies for the length of this - My cajun mother forced me to inherit the the inability to say something without telling a story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Man, this forum would be a dull and boring place if we followed all these guidelines, Dodger. I can tell you right off that this place is a virtual information bonanza and VERY respectful compared to 95% of all forums I have visited. Yeah, there are some witty and sometimes pithy retorts, but for the love of St. Nick, this is part of the EQUATION of forums and a FUN one as well. In my view, there is nothing at all wrong with a retort now and then if it's done with some style and wit. Most can hold their own here with no need for coddling. I, for one, am not too into the "group hug" approach nor the constant references to personal issues or how one needs to bring thy LORD into the picture, especially since there are quite a few Lords referenced from this planet. But I sure dont tell people NOT to post this. I might throw in a zinger every now and then when it appears as if all humor and perspective is lost (or if people are taking themselves too seriously). I personally dont think this is the place to list one's personal problems but many do here, and that's fine. Some would say it makes us like a family. Again, that's fine. I just am not into the more maudlin side of sentiment, especially when it brings out a plethora of posts involving prayer to their preferred God. Again, it's not that big a deal to me but I might throw in a line or two, especially if the people seem to be taking this all in earnest. I think some of this actually cheapens real emotion, bringing a Hallmark card style of emotion. Having a sanitized, policed forum is surely not my idea of the best solution. I think this place has a good balance of retorts and information. Personally, I go way out of my way to post info and material, most without the banter. See the many MUSIC posts recently with many members getting into NEW MUSIC. This takes a LOT of time to post and bring to the forum. There is GOOD balance here. As for Craig, no one is "jumping on Craig" unless ole Craig does something that needs "jumpin' on" Heh... Craig and I have a give and take relationship and he can hold his own FINE. WE dont agree on some things but we DO agree on many others. This forum has been a BOON to Craig and I know he realizes that. In many ways, I got the vintage integrated discussion flowing here a few years ago. There wasnt a ton of talk of vintage integrated gear. Again, more irony as the history is forgotten. If I feel Craig is stating something about me that is untrue, I respond. Here we go yet again with what I believe is an inability to read posts and see it in the order it happened. In that thread you are referring to, Craig was the FIRST one to bring ME up personally. I responded to him. Again, no one is JUMPING on Craig. Dodger, you have a strange way of interpreting this place, in my view. As for Craig, we have a fine relationship that always involves some sort of exchange every now and then. We have two different ways of seeing things, not to mention the difference in posting styles. Still, we manage to get along, plugging away. OF course, we all dont get along all the time. But that is par for the course (not coarse, heh) and is what makes this place INTERESTING with VITALITY in my view. There is a VERY healthy mix of INFO and BANTER. Believe me, I get jumped on many times in here and sure dont ask for those to stop doing so. I enjoy those that can turn a few interesting words with an amusing retort. Sanitize the forum and it's like eating OATMEAL every morning.... Orwell sure wouldnt have approved. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 2, 2003 Author Share Posted October 2, 2003 I thank you for your responses. I really do not wish to be a father figure. I have apoint where, when reding the posts and the self serving statements, my opinion is better than yours I try to find a balance. That said, would you PM me as to how to filter certain replies out? I do thank you for your suggestion and to the above for your posts. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Nope - cant agree with this one. This is still the most respectful and pleasant audio discussion place on the net I have found. Yes, occasionally threads get a bit strong but that is par for the course. When this happens it is often the very humour you are complaining about that alleviates the situation. We have a good mix on this forum, imho, from the totally insane to the mildly affected (audiophilewise) and a wealth of information that rivals the Britanica. Other than that just ignore Kelly - he is way to SET in his ways with tubular vision when it comes to audio resulting in a few corn(wall)y jokes at others expense. Follow his "Linn"ks at your own risk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Hey Max, you were on a roll until you had to work in CORNwall! heh... Corny jokes? The first time I have ever been acused of being corny... A horses ***, yes! Dont worry, everything you believe today, you will contradict tomorrow... heh...STILL the best line for a signature! Dont ever change it or you'll make me have to use it! Also, you get the number 1 personal photo avatar award as well. btw, what's this I hear about the ole Greece freaks killing poor ole stray dogs to prepare for the Olympics? You guys have gotten wacky over there! kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Other than that just ignore Kelly - he is way to SET in his ways with tubular vision when it comes to audio resulting in a few corn(wall)y jokes at others expense. Follow his "Linn"ks at your own risk! Oh no ---- I feel a smile coming on Darn it, it happened. This thread has now lost all value... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Win, Most of what Kelly and other have said is true. People may have a hard time believing it but I have been frequenting forums for at least 10 years now (should of seen my writing and typing skills then). By far this is the most civil forum I have ever been on bar none ! If you would of been here a year ago you would of really seen some heated exchanges ! Some times it takes a good thrashing back and forth for 2 different minded people to come to terms and in the end everyone is better off. Kelly and I have had some serious exchanges over the last 2 years. The rescent exchanges are nothing compared to others. Look at Ryan and I we thrashed back and forth for some time and now get along just fine. We found common ground ! I agree completely with Kelly's accessment about me reading between the lines. I myself don't see why I should have to "If you mean something then just say it and get it over with !!" Why the riddles ? I personally do not have time for them. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Yes - the cornwall was a stretch, apologies. As for Greeks killing dogs it is the first I have heard of it but, sadly, it does make sense. We have a real problem over here with people buying dogs - realizing what a complete PITA they are to look after and then dumping them in the street. I should say, at this point that I am a dog lover - we have 2 - a beagle and a Groenenthal(?) er Belgium Shepherd. Anyway - said abandoned dogs gather together in large packs and make something of a nuisance of themselves. Further, we have a dog disease over here called Kalazaar. This is 100% fatal to the dog without treatment. Treatment is very expensive and not massively successful. My Beagle has had the disease 3 times. Total treatment cost has so far amounted to something around $7000 plus my time. The disease is contagious not only to other dogs but also to humans (although it is far less serious in Humans - a simple course of antibiotics usually does the trick). You didnt really want to know all this did you....I could go on and on but suffice to say stray dogs are a problem in Athens. It is just a pity it takes the Olympics to spur the authorities into doing something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Lordy. That IS a problem. Here is the article I read on CNN. Take a look: http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/10/01/athens.dogs.reut/index.html kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 2, 2003 Author Share Posted October 2, 2003 Kelly: 1. I did not ask for policing in my comments. 2. If you do not like maudlin, you do not have to "put a line or two" in. You do not like Hallmark, thus we all must dislike Hallmark. You are one person Kelly, You cheapened Greg's Apologies. You tell me if you would be perfectly quiet about not beibng able to walk or drive and on the same day receive a lousy diagnosis - Hydro-Carbon Poisoning, in my opinion more important than your need to decide about a haircut. I read all of your comments on the Hurricane, if we follow your feeling, no one woulkd have wished you and your wife well -- Think about it. 3. I asked for no group hug, NOR did I ask for policing, sanitizing in this post. I did not request guidelines, I stated what was noted in the thread on amplifiers what another member stated a new person must think upon reading the posts. 4. Though you may not "start" the fight, there are trigger words that can be avoided. Read how many times you state that you have been mis-read, mis-stated. 5. Though you state your relationship with Craig, you find the point to note his mis-spelling, that was not necessary, in my view. You forgot the hypen in don"t. 6. My "view" of this place conflicts with yours. I come for non-biased answers. 7. As for Lord, as stated, if you don't like the channel, turn it." You chose to insert comments when Dean offered to PRAY, no mention of Lord, which God, deity or being. In my opinion, your comments in the Apologies post speak for themselves. You brought "Jesus" into the Forum in a reply to Dean. If Dean wanted to he could have not posted anything about prayoing, note he did not state to whom he would pray to. But you decided it was Hallmark. That in itself is policing. 8. I believe in factual dis-agreement, not "this is better." That is preaching and telling a person their opinion is not correct, yours is. 9. You posted a very friendly comment to Dean HEH 10. The Vintage discusion was going on, you contributed, not started, lurking is fun and can bite. !!. I love your comment on Orwell, doublespeak, state YOUR opinion, then put it all well with a delicate put down quote. 12. If you want to comapre time to note good music and the time it takes to ready and post, Gil Scot-Heron's bass line in "The Bottle" is extremely vibrant, ahead of its time, double noting and plucking the strings to gain effect along with using a bass guitar for chords, rather than the singular note. On the same subject of bass, the credit has not been given to Paul McCartney for his ability to clear notes though using flat wound strings. His perception of the music coming from the ability to play piano, organ, guitar, drums, etc., all contributed to performances that though understated was also ahead of his time and quite an addition to the music, almost a surreal type of playing, but a use that included noting as a pianist would... I did not ask for oatmeal. And as you say that I have a strange way of interpreting this place, who is to say which is right. And I noticed that you asked for a prayer about getting you boat in the water. Along with your photos of your vacation to Italy (personal), sitting with a glass of wine, text included, Standing in Canada, which took much longer to bring up that a text, you requested Dean pray for you to get your boat in the water. I saw no deciding Hallmark to request that, or do we just say we read you wrong, or you DECIDED to insert your own view and comments when YOU chose. You do not like maudlin or personal comments, posting vacation pictures when you decide, or adding commnents about prayer - CUT AND PASTE THE OFFER OF PRAYER AND YOUR COMMENTS. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Dodger, I sure would have NEVER brought up this tread.... Indeed, I have not seen this subject brought up so much in the years I have been here. Stop the grudge match and post your ideas, without apologies. Why all these comments? Why not concentrate your energy on posting some thoughts on GEAR, music, and other points that can be used besides these Moral Imperative posts discussing foul language, mean jokes, flames, and the right way to run a forum etc etc? Then again, it's your place to post this if you feel the need. And I responded with MY take on it, just like the others above. Acually, this place has done quite fine with VERY little input from moderators. For some odd reason, you seem to think it's in dire need of point by point help. I know you mean well... but... man. This is only a lowly AUDIO FORUM filled with freaks, myself included. Get a grip, man! kh ps- If you didnt think that post to Dean about PRAYING to get the boat in the water was tongue in cheek, then I give up (not to mention the TOTALLY tongue in cheek HAIRCUT comment) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 In this area when a dog is picked up. Its placed in the dog pound & if not picked up in a couple of weeks its put to sleep. DODGER get over it & dont be so thin skinned. The world is a tough place. Truman said... If you cant stand the heat in the kitchen....stick you,r head in the refrigerater. (my revision). This is a great forum & within limits. WE can express all view points about our audio hobby & learn from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 ---------------- On 10/2/2003 10:00:02 AM mobile homeless wrote: This a only a lowly AUDIO FORUM filled with freaks, myself included. kh ---------------- Yeah, there's more to life than this Klipsch forum! I occasionally go to the fridge for a snack, and sign something one of the kids brings home from school. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 ---------------- On 10/2/2003 9:40:11 AM dodger wrote: 4. Though you may not "start" the fight, there are trigger words that can be avoided. Read how many times you state that you have been mis-read, mis-stated. ---------------- OK... let see what such a list of triggering words (or group of words) might look like! Phase splitter SET Journey Push-Pull Wooden Boat Negative feedback eBay Triode God (anyone of them) Alnico Heritage serie Klipsch Lowther Eico KT88 Pentode RF serie Scott bridged 600W Archaic (cult of the) Joe Rosen speaker cables solid state Bob Seger Sub woofer froot green 2A3 Patricia Barber Black Gate horns SPL Home theater SACD interconnect Parafeed oil cap mylar tube I suggest we use this as a starting point and update the list as we find other triggering words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Flames? Man, these are but matchsticks burning compared to the bonfires we have had here in the past! Right after 9/11, this board and the few other ones I frequent, erupted like Mt. Olympus. Then you saw flames. Back then, there were so many insults flying it was like being back in the first grade. I, for one, put out a call to quench the insults as provocative behavior that results in no good. Kelly is NOT wrong about what he says, though it is good to remember that most stereo-heads do NOT want the same things from their home movie and music reproduction systems as tweaking audiophiles do. Most just want the big blast of sound, NOT the audio nirvana of a 3D sonic holograph. I enjoy his thoughtful and well-written comments and look forward to what he has to say, same with NOSvalves, Ray Garrison, Deang, Q-man, Edster and many others (a lot of whom are dropping by the wayside). Flames? NOT hardly. Just a few candles burning. I think Kelly can take care of himself. He loves the controversy. (I can just hear him muttering to himself as he pens another blast at some poor yokel!) Remember, there is no democracy without dissent. And I, for one, love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I have yet to find any forum without flaming posts.... Some people to stir up the pot....ya just gotta live with it..... It is truly up to the moderators to enforce rules and clean up offending posts if they violate policy....but again..people will still post the way they choose... as always you do not have to read every post if it offends.....skip over them at the sign of the first word that makes you upset.... PEACE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Jeff, If those words are all banned I'm leaving. What the heck would we talk about ? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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