fini Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I believe this topic is more appropriate in the 2-channel forum. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Oh man, I can sense another flame war brewin'... Personally, I like the majority of the articles in the Bill of Non-Rights, but that's just my opinion, and I refuse to get into any shouting match with other forum members on who agrees or disagrees with it. To each their own... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_highlander Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 "Please don't forget that this is NOT our country. We stole it by killing and imprisoning the NATIVE Americans. Please don't forget that this BECAME an English speaking country after WE immigrated here and brought the language from overseas, just as other immigrants are doing." finally, a "true" American... funny how this can also be applied to those north of the border...except they still hate the French... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 ---------------- On 10/2/2003 10:54:50 PM TheEAR wrote: "tolerance will not be tolerated" I can feel its a bit south of the border now. ---------------- It's not a matter of having lack of tolerance, it's a matter of people who take advantage of things, who whine and complain and do nothing positive for their country. So... I don't know maybe there is a lack of tolerance these days, but rightfully so in many cases. I get tired of people who milk the system, who whine all the time, who don't like this, or don't like that blah blah blah... You think you have it so gawd damn bad, I invite you to go to some other country like oh.... I dunno, pick a third world country of your chooseing, then come back.... Lets see just how much you have to flap your gums about then. I have been on the other side of the world, I have seen these other countries, the poverty, it aint pleasent. Too many people just don't realize how good they have it here. It's really sad that so many people take for granted what we have. Good post scooter, but I am afraid I am leaving this and not posting in here anymore... Don't want to make more enemies than I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 m00n,actually when I said "tolerance will not be tolerated" I was thinking of Scooters original post and the" bill" and how it may not be tolerated by some.I agree with most of what it says.I was just making the point that many of the people that say we must be tolerant often would not tolerate me or you saying/doing what we like.As for Mungkiman,I'm glad you didn't go off the deep end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 ---------------- On 10/2/2003 11:57:29 PM m00n wrote: ---------------- It's not a matter of having lack of tolerance, it's a matter of people who take advantage of things, who whine and complain and do nothing positive for their country. ---------------- You're talking about the Bush administration here, right? fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Hello: As a point it is very good. But after 30 years of serving legal papers, I can tell you that if you punch yourself in the face, a lawyer will find someone to sue. We do have free health care - Medicaid, or if you are an alien have a bear your child on American soil, set for life. Though our Country was based upon freedom of religious belief, don't try to exercise it. I would love to see the non-believers work Christmas Day at the regular rate. Or stores have their "right" to call Christmas Sales as such. If you don't believe, why take the benefit? It would be nice if we could all speak two (2) languages. But within the territorial bounds, English is the language. Out of courtesy others living here could learn after a few years. We can recognize where the Country's roots are and give a verbal apology, but as partially Native American, what happened hundreds of years ago is not the fault of the people around me today. My ancestors should have pursued legal remedy generations ago. They didn't. We almost have freedom of speech, until we use or say something someone does not like. By use I mean words that if one says it it's jumped on, but one can say it to another. I hold that doublestandard to be self idiocy. The comment about going south was premature and the poster should have known there would be response, why should either side insult the other. If you posted it, someone responds with their belief or knowledge of history - the French Language was imported and our ancestors did a number of things that we may not be proud of today, but how many generations do we have to answer for? dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Talk about intolerance. From Georgia; no less, the Confederate flag-flying capital of political correctness! ARTICLE I: You DO have the right to a wonderful life, the liberty of owning property and the pursuit of luxury. Our politicians promise a car in every garage, NOT our Constitution. ARTICLE IV: There are whole generations of people stuck in low standards of living, this is a tangle of pathology described best by Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan. Many of these people suffer from all sorts of real, and yes, imagined and exaggerated illnesses and disabilities. Poor education, horrible home life, low self esteem, sheer laziness, depression, chronic illnesses and physical disabilities plague the poor like parasites. More to the point, the underclass is a drag on the US economy. NOT giving them the services they need to be productive is more expensive to us, than merely doling out some aid. Besides an enormous amount of low income aid ends up in the pockets of middle class bureaucrats! So doing right by people who are less fortunate than us helps to stabilize the American middle class. ARTICLE V: Health care is an inelastic demand market. We can NOT get enough of it at any price. Just like defense. It is too expensive NOT to have some form of government oversight. With some 40 million Americans without proper heath care coverage, the semi-private system we have now is a drag on the US economy. Medical expenses are the number one reason for bankruptcy in this country. 1. Every child born in the US should have an IRA style medical savings account started in their name. Low income families should receive tax credits towards the account. People should be able to spend their medical savings at registered medical facilities, as they see fit, but every body too stupid or too poor to have medical contingency plans so be enticed to have one. 2. Every Doctors visit should be free for those donating a pint of blood. Blood collection organizations get rich of a free supply, while poor people need basic and affordable medical attention. ARTICLE VIII: You do NOT have the right to a job, true. But, we cant afford to have people be unproductive. With government support, we now have many quasi-public work programs for people with both emotional and physical disabilities. If you want to work, the US government can afford to put you to work. ARTICLE X: This IS mainly an English speaking country. Yet there are neighborhoods in every major city in the US where English is NOT the dominant language. There are dozens of Indian nations within this country (called reservations) that are bilingual. In fact, the rest of the world is multi-lingual. Our closest neighbors and largest trading partners speak French and Spanish. Shouldnt we learn French and Spanish in order to do business with them? Already Latinos account for almost 1/6 of the voting population. Shouldnt we learn Spanish to communicate with them? If the richest, most successful and powerful country on the face of the earth wants to spread the lessons of our progressive social and government experiments, then our entire population should learn a second language. Cappice? ARTICLE XI: This country was founded on a belief that a separation of church and state would keep the church out of the business of regulation. NOT that religion or belief in a deity was wrong. Our schools should teach about religions, all religions. Instead, we have a system that supports the Christian holidays and ignores the world-wide Muslim majority. No wonder we have a bad image in the Middle-East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 A question for ALL of you. Where did the Native Americans come from? (they all didnt speak the same language) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 ---------------- On 10/3/2003 9:39:09 AM Colin wrote: Talk about intolerance. From Georgia; no less, the Confederate flag-flying capital of political correctness! ARTICLE I: You DO have the right to a wonderful life, the liberty of owning property and the pursuit of luxury. Our politicians promise a car in every garage, NOT our Constitution. ARTICLE IV: There are whole generations of people stuck in low standards of living, this is a “tangle of pathology” described best by Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan. Many of these people suffer from all sorts of real, and yes, imagined and exaggerated illnesses and disabilities. Poor education, horrible home life, low self esteem, sheer laziness, depression, chronic illnesses and physical disabilities plague the poor like parasites. More to the point, the underclass is a drag on the US economy. NOT giving them the services they need to be productive is more expensive to us, than merely doling out some aid. Besides an enormous amount of low income aid ends up in the pockets of middle class bureaucrats! So doing right by people who are less fortunate than us helps to stabilize the American middle class. ARTICLE V: Health care is an inelastic demand market. We can NOT get enough of it at any price. Just like defense. It is too expensive NOT to have some form of government oversight. With some 40 million Americans without proper heath care coverage, the semi-private system we have now is a drag on the US economy. Medical expenses are the number one reason for bankruptcy in this country. 1. Every child born in the US should have an IRA style medical savings account started in their name. Low income families should receive tax credits towards the account. People should be able to spend their medical savings at registered medical facilities, as they see fit, but every body too stupid or too poor to have medical contingency plans so be enticed to have one. 2. Every Doctor’s visit should be free for those donating a pint of blood. Blood collection organizations get rich of a free supply, while poor people need basic and affordable medical attention. ARTICLE VIII: You do NOT have the right to a job, true. But, we can’t afford to have people be unproductive. With government support, we now have many quasi-public work programs for people with both emotional and physical disabilities. If you want to work, the US government can afford to put you to work. ARTICLE X: This IS mainly an English speaking country. Yet there are neighborhoods in every major city in the US where English is NOT the dominant language. There are dozens of Indian nations within this country (called reservations) that are bilingual. In fact, the rest of the world is multi-lingual. Our closest neighbors and largest trading partners speak French and Spanish. Shouldn’t we learn French and Spanish in order to do business with them? Already Latinos account for almost 1/6 of the voting population. Shouldn’t we learn Spanish to communicate with them? If the richest, most successful and powerful country on the face of the earth wants to spread the lessons of our progressive social and government experiments, then our entire population should learn a second language. Cappice? ARTICLE XI: This country was founded on a belief that a separation of church and state would keep the church out of the business of regulation. NOT that religion or belief in a deity was wrong. Our schools should teach about religions, all religions. Instead, we have a system that supports the Christian holidays and ignores the world-wide Muslim majority. No wonder we have a bad image in the Middle-East. ---------------- I will agree with quite a bit of the Post quoted. In no order: Health Care: One of the things most insurers, Medicare and in some states Medicaid are Physicals. A large portion of health care expense is due to conditions that have progressed rather than catch them in the beginning stages when treatment is easier and less costly. In Rochester, NY we have a hospital that has been ranked highly for Cardio-Vascular procedures. One very large hospital which has been buying Physicin's servicecs and practices, just bought a Cardiologist Group's practice for ten (10) million dollars over five (5) years. For the Physicians, they will receive two (2) million dollars per year for the next five (5) years. What was once set as a model of health care, has now been shredded by Kodak, Xerox and some other firms that decided to lower benefits at a time when their CEO salaries were going sky-high, while laying off employees. In Rochester at its peak, Eastman Kodak employed 40,000 plus. It is now down to 22,000+ and the consumer film business will no longer be promoted and all manufacturing of the consumer film is being moved to China. That will leave Fuji as the company manufacturing film in the Carolinas in the U.S. The new CEO of Kodak stated there will be no manufacturing jobs in the U.S. in six (6) years. So you have a dilemna - buy Fuji made in the U.S. but the profits go to Japan or Buy Kodak made in China with profits coming here and leaving. Cameras are already going to Mexico. One suburb needed tractors they figured buy American, buy John Deere - made in Japan, the Japanese competitor is made in the U.S.. Education: Florida has a program of savings starting very young that go toward a full College Education. When a City, County or State has a Budget Crisis, one of the first cuts is not in pay to lawmakers/Politicians, it is for too many times in Education. How can we stay as a "world class leader" when we cut part of what brought us here. Religion: I agree, there are schools that allow for both the Jewish and Chrtisian Holidays, without recognition of other religions. Personal note: I believe that when we started the war in March, it was called either War in Iraq, or War on Iraq - That gave the illusion that we may have been starting the war on the Mulim Religion. War on Hussein and terrorists would have been the accurate wording, I believe. Language: It would be nice to have a dual language system. But my point is the number f people in the U.S. for five (5) years or more, accepting the freedom and benefits, without trying to learn English. As a courtesy, theu could and should. Well enough. Win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 ---------------- On 10/3/2003 10:31:11 AM Maron Horonzak wrote: A question for ALL of you. Where did the Native Americans come from? (they all didnt speak the same language) ---------------- Hello: Different areas, different "words" - starting as grunts, progressing to a spoken word. In different parts of the country, different tribes, differents "words" for the same thing. Since England was our "Mother Country" English became the language, while for the most part the "Native American Tribes" had their language abandoned as they had to communicate with the Immigrants that spoke only English. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 On 10/03/2003 fini wrote: "You're talking about the Bush administration here, right?" fini, Tempting as it may be, I doubt you will change anybody's political persuasion with remarks like this. Some probably laughed and some were likely offended. I have been guilty of this myself. In the future, how about we all try to avoid socially and/or politically divisive comments on this forum. If they appear, maybe we can try to ignore them. This is merely a suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 So, is it OK with you if I continue with the mildly sexually suggestive innuendo approach? I am trying to hone my gig (and, frankly, that is very painful). fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Yea, sure! You don't need my approval for anything fini. Heck, I respect your opinion. Might not understand it but I respect it just the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 In the end we can all post something that we believe. For the short this was a post of a proposed set of thoughts. Going to other Countries and seeing the poverty, waste, poor health conditions and poor educational systems makes one appreciate what we DO have. I am a liberal, a throwback to the late 1960s, early 1970s. That's a filthy thing to be according to a lot of people. But our in-place Constitution and Bill of Rights, with the Miranda-Escebella system is what we have to work with. Martin Luther King's "I have a Dream" speech is extremely powerful. It is even more pwerful when race is taken out, other troublesome points put in and we have a colorblind society. As all know, I can be somewhat offended by a number of things. Celebrations of Holidays, whether my own belief or another are no big deal, I've worked my own, seen bodies and have had people come up with cookies or something showing appreciation. When one talks of separation of Church and State, it is my opinion that those in power dictate a religion or belief. I've always wondered about the ordinary Citizen placing a holiday decoration on a Government property. In removing it, is that censorship, or following the Separation. Anyway, I hit 51 on the eighth, these questions seem a little less. I follow my own belief more, try for a better world, in what way I can and whatever that may be. One of the best things I ever tried was on a Saturday, if not working, or on a vacation, taking my watch off for the day. It was nice not to feel the pressure of time. Win dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Dodger, On the 8th, we can wish each other a Happy Birthday. I'll be 48. My Dad (who passed away one week after my wife and I were married, Father's Day 1987) will have been 81. I sure miss the old man. Now he had a sense of humor! fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 ---------------- On 10/3/2003 11:03:59 AM boomac wrote: On 10/03/2003 fini wrote: "You're talking about the Bush administration here, right?" fini, Tempting as it may be, I doubt you will change anybody's political persuasion with remarks like this. Some probably laughed and some were likely offended. I have been guilty of this myself. In the future, how about we all try to avoid socially and/or politically divisive comments on this forum. If they appear, maybe we can try to ignore them. This is merely a suggestion. ---------------- I have to agree with Boomac here. I'm a minority myself, a Jewish conservative. Two of my favorite guys here are liberals but I still love you anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I will admit, I have blown post most of the posts since my last one last night, but I just wanted to ask... Can we have a group hug? I really lub you all. Plus, I wanna get a crack at grabbing fini's booty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 ---------------- On 10/3/2003 12:30:38 PM m00n wrote: I will admit, I have blown post most of the posts since my last one last night, but I just wanted to ask... Can we have a group hug? I really lub you all. Plus, I wanna get a crack at grabbing fini's booty. ---------------- That's just nasty m00n! Anyway, it's my turn to grab Fini's booty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 ---------------- On 10/3/2003 12:36:37 PM garymd wrote: ---------------- On 10/3/2003 12:30:38 PM m00n wrote: I will admit, I have blown post most of the posts since my last one last night, but I just wanted to ask... Can we have a group hug? I really lub you all. Plus, I wanna get a crack at grabbing fini's booty. ---------------- That's just nasty m00n! Anyway, it's my turn to grab Fini's booty. ---------------- Your next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.