forte Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 I have a pair of original Fortes. Most people have told me that you do not need much power for these because they are so efficient. I think the fortes were rated at 98db/watt. But at what frequency is that measured? I assume that it is at a frequency produced by the horns and not the 12" woofer. So how efficient is the woofer? Maybe the horns can settle for less than a watt, but is that still the case for the woofer? Or will the woofer benefit from a much stronger power source? How does the 12" woofer match the super efficient horns? I would assume that the horns would scream before the woofer put out much bass, but this clearly does not happen. Can anybody explain this to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurdy_gurdyman Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 In any speaker that uses both horns and cone drivers, the horns are padded down to match the efficiency of the cones. Thus, if the speaker is rated at, say 98 dB sensitvity, this would be an average SPL of the total speaker, both horns and cones. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSUfbfan Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Speaking of power requirements for the Forte's, I am looking at a rebuilt Scott 222 tube integrated (17 watts per channel RMS). I would like opinions from you guys about if you think the Forte's are effecient enough for a tube amp with this low of output. I know these are some of the best sounding tube amps ever made but I have been running the Forte's with an Aragon amp, and while I want a smoother top-end, I don't want to lose all of the bass output. Thanks for any thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 BSUfbfan,Well I don't know. For moderate sound pressure level, sure, but at the level of live music, it's doubtful, IMO. Paul Klipsch always said one needs 115 dB (peaks) at one's ears, at normal distance, in a listening room (not at 1 Meter). Leading edges of peaks occur at that high a level in full orchestral music when the broader, more sustained "loud" levels are 85-95 dB Given that the Forte is rated at 98 dB @ 2.83v (1wt into 8 Ohms) @ 1 Meter, we could look at an old (pre-Forte) Klipsch chart * for the Heresy, which was 2 dB less efficient than the Forte, and then convert it to Forte efficiency. You want to minimize the chance of clipping, which could take out your tweeters. According to the Klipsch chart, the Heresy will produce 105 dB in the field of a 3,000 cu ft room with 45 watts, and PWK, and the earlier author Keele, assert that a good amplifier will pass super brief peaks 10 dB higher than this, without clipping, i.e., 115 dB, in our example. So, If the Heresy could do this at 45 watts, then the Forte could produce those 115 dB peaks with something like 30 watts, because the Forte is 2 dB more efficient...... So I would think you would need an amplifier rated at 30 wts, rather than 17. Many people would prefer a much greater margin of error. Just for comparison, a La Scala or a Klipschorn would produce the same SPL at 6.3 watts, according to the chart.*Dope from Hope, Vol 16 No 1, January 1977, REVISED November 1980 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Hook Them Up to the Scott, it will power them just fine ................. Don't let the watts fool you, it's TUBE watts you're talking about, not Solid State. Your Klipsch speakers only need 1 watt to reach 98 spl ............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Gary your post is right on. I used a yamaha a-550 to power my forte ii's for several years. Rated at 45 watts/channel, it felt like just enough to me. Barely. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSUfbfan Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Thanks for the very informative points... I generally use the Forte's when I really want to crank up my music. I may just focus my looking to the Scott 299 which would put me right at 31 watts per channel RMS... life is good. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET12 Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 I have a pair of original Fortes. Most people have told me that you do not need much power for these because they are so efficient. I think the fortes were rated at 98db/watt. But at what frequency is that measured? I assume that it is at a frequency produced by the horns and not the 12" woofer. So how efficient is the woofer? Maybe the horns can settle for less than a watt, but is that still the case for the woofer? Or will the woofer benefit from a much stronger power source? How does the 12" woofer match the super efficient horns? I would assume that the horns would scream before the woofer put out much bass, but this clearly does not happen. Can anybody explain this to me? forte, As far as power is concerned you might want to check this out as I think it is very useful for amplifier power. http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/supercharger/dynamicrange.html Some yrs back Stereophile Magazine published an article on why tubes sound louder than their actual continuous power rating. What they found was that push-pull tube amps could react to a burst power of up to 2 1/2 times their rated continuous power And single-ended tube amps an unbelievable 5 times there continuous power rating I myself use a 10 watt SET amp thats 5.5 watts rms and I have no problem reaching 100db at my chair although I listen in the low to mid 90's. If you'd like a smoother Forte you might try up grading the crossover networks to Sonicaps a great bargin for the money of course there are many more to chose from! Check this cap comparison listening test out! http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html I have had Hovlands with small MIT bypass caps and I attest to his opinions to the Hovlands. I am now using Mundorf's Silver/Gold for the midrange and just the Silver for the tweeters again I concur with his opinion! My next venture will be the Duelund VSF copper-foil/paper for the midrange very costly but likely worth every penny as the Mundorf's are! Below is a picture of my outboard crossover that allows me to try out any cap or inductor with ease! I might add that I recently tried out the 8 ohm taps on my SET amps and found that the midrange was far more suited to it makeing it more lively and involving with littile given up in the bass IMO. The Forte's have a 4 ohm woofer and 8 ohm midrange and tweeter. Muelund VSF copper-foil/paper Good luck! SET12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 I have a pair of original Fortes. Most people have told me that you do not need much power for these because they are so efficient. I think the fortes were rated at 98db/watt. But at what frequency is that measured? I assume that it is at a frequency produced by the horns and not the 12" woofer. So how efficient is the woofer? Maybe the horns can settle for less than a watt, but is that still the case for the woofer? Or will the woofer benefit from a much stronger power source? How does the 12" woofer match the super efficient horns? I would assume that the horns would scream before the woofer put out much bass, but this clearly does not happen. Can anybody explain this to me? forte, As far as power is concerned you might want to check this out as I think it is very useful for amplifier power. http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/supercharger/dynamicrange.html Some yrs back Stereophile Magazine published an article on why tubes sound louder than their actual continuous power rating. What they found was that push-pull tube amps could react to a burst power of up to 2 1/2 times their rated continuous power And single-ended tube amps an unbelievable 5 times there continuous power rating I myself use a 10 watt SET amp thats 5.5 watts rms and I have no problem reaching 100db at my chair although I listen in the low to mid 90's. If you'd like a smoother Forte you might try up grading the crossover networks to Sonicaps a great bargin for the money of course there are many more to chose from! Check this cap comparison listening test out! http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html I have had Hovlands with small MIT bypass caps and I attest to his opinions to the Hovlands. I am now using Mundorf's Silver/Gold for the midrange and just the Silver for the tweeters again I concur with his opinion! My next venture will be the Duelund VSF copper-foil/paper for the midrange very costly but likely worth every penny as the Mundorf's are! Below is a picture of my outboard crossover that allows me to try out any cap or inductor with ease! I might add that I recently tried out the 8 ohm taps on my SET amps and found that the midrange was far more suited to it makeing it more lively and involving with littile given up in the bass IMO. The Forte's have a 4 ohm woofer and 8 ohm midrange and tweeter. Muelund VSF copper-foil/paper Good luck! SET12 Very interesting thanks for the information. You always post gear that makes me drool. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET12 Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Thanks seti,[] I never have enjoyed the hobby more [] especially after getting involved DIYing [] SET12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 I had the opportunity to visit SET12's house a few weekends ago. His DIY gear and knowledge of it is very impressive......intimidating to a "tube newbie" like myself but very, very interesting. Dan is a great guy with such a passion in his/our hobby. Thanks again for "schooling" me on different aspects of the hobby. SET 12's Fortes were the third pair of Fortes I've heard...........they were pumping out bass like I had not heard even close in the previous two pairs. You'd swear a sub was in the room!![] His Fortes imaged in a stunning fashion as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET12 Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Thank You SWL, And thank you for your visit I enjoyed your company very much! After yrs of audio experiance one does learn a few things By going beyond the good enough approach! One can achieve extraordinary results by extraordinary means! For the love of [8] SET12[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sberger Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 17 wpc would be fine, and you should be able to get very loud, unless you're in a huge listening area. I use a 6wpc SEP tube amp with a high gain tube pre for my '87 Forte's, and they are plenty loud. And my ears aren't so good being a 51 guy who has been playing and listening to loud music for most of my adult years. And the Forte's really took off after upgrading my crossovers and tweeters. Really an amazing speaker. Beats me how a 45 watt amp would "barely" make it, because cranked those speakers should be blasting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSUfbfan Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I upgraded the crossovers, but what tweeter upgrade did you do? Looking at the HF horn, it looks like it is already the titanium dome rather than the mylar, but I don't know..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET12 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I upgraded the crossovers, but what tweeter upgrade did you do? Looking at the HF horn, it looks like it is already the titanium dome rather than the mylar, but I don't know..... Yes can anyone go over the sound presentation of the various tweeter options especially the Titanium Dome. Perhaps Bob could reflect some on this? I certainly am interested! SET12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacek Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I have replaced original tweeters with titanium. New are more bright, and more detailed at higher midrange. Definitely progress but ..... on old Cornwall with old k-77 highs are more natural. When I've heard Hi-hats for the first time on them, I have fall in love. BTW. For some time I've used Sun Audio 2A3 amp clone to drive Forte. It's only 2x3.5W but it was more than enough in 24 m square room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quadklipsh Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 : wud forte2 work with just 45watts amp quadklipsh: wud forte2 work with just 45watts amp Reply Edit Favorites Contact Ok here is my new query. I hear JBL. L80s in one shop. Then in the next door shop of same dimension and placement , another amp and another speaker, sound entirely different,these are the CHORUS 2s. Now , I love the chorus 2s sound entirely different,these are the CHORUS 2s. Now , I love the chorus 2s and their power and clarity , but when I come from the jbl shop , I always get Aug 19 2009 and their power and clarity , but when I come from the jbl shop , I always get Aug 19 2009 to like their bassy punchy , full sound ,as they leave no deficiency in bassy to like their bassy punchy , full sound ,as they leave no deficiency in bassy oomph,and the Chorus seem to be depressing . I hate this phenomenon. Now wot is this? It wud make me happier if the chorus went deeper and boomier Than the much smaller L80....... oomph,and the Chorus seem to be depressing . I hate this phenomenon. Now Posts 133 oomph,and the Chorus seem to be depressing . I hate this phenomenon. Now Posts 133 oomph,and the Chorus seem to be depressing . I hate this phenomenon. Now Posts 133 wot is this? It wud make me happier if wot is this? It wud make me happier if Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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