Champagne taste beer budget Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 I realize this is like asking Julia Childs what kind of food she likes, but what the heck... I have been aware of the value of a tube setup for years, just never got interested enough to pursue it. With a new house coming next year, of our own design, now, if ever, would be the time to build a room strictly for listening to music. We have enough flexibility in our plans for the downstairs to make room for one. Ideally it will have Khorns, though the WAF (Wifes Approval Factor) may mean a different horn loaded Klipsch model. I have been in contact with Craig at NOSValves re this topic, (thanks again for the speedy replies, Craig) and would like to throw it out to the forum to see what kind of replies I get. Searching eBay, there are all kinds of Scott, Dynaco, Fisher, EICO, etc. amps out there, all naturally with glowing reviews from the sellers. I'd like to know what anyone would recommend as a first tube amp/preamp/integrated amp setup in the $3-400 range for purchase, knowing it will be going to someone (probably Craig, based on what I have heard of him on this site) for refurbishing once purchased, for additional cost. Knowing that these companies all made several models, a model referance would be appreciated. Pros and cons of your recommendation would be nice too. Thanks in advance for any and all replies. p.s. I live in Mon, Minnesota, (Middle Of Nowhere), so the idea of me getting anywhere to audition even used equipment at a vintage stereo shop is unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lshannon Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 First tube amp/preamp/integrated amp setup in the $300-to-400 range? I went with seperates to hit that price range on my first foray into tube-land. Two AV-8s tube 8 watt mono-amplifiers from Antique Sound Lab (new $120.00 each) direct from the company for a total of $240.00 and a vintage Dynakit PAS-2 pre-amp for $115.00 from a local vintage stereo shop (but you get one off Ebay as well). I use them to power a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls. I am very happy with the set-up. - Lee Home: Carver Amp Carver Tuner NAD pre-amp NAD tape deck NAD CD player. Thorens turntable Heresy speakers Office: Dynaco FM-3 tube tuner Dynaco PAS-2 tube Preamp Antique Sound Lab av-8s tube amps Cornwall speakers (because I spend more time in my office that at home) GoVideo/Sonic Blue - dvd/CD/mp3 player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 I can only recommend what I own which is a scott 299b. Just as a point of reference, it bests the very expensive McIntosh setup I have in the basement and it's integrated which takes less room. Craig did an amazing job with mine. I haven't heard the others so I can't comment how the scott compares to the eico, etc. It also has a pretty high WAF. For about $650 including Craig's fee, you can have an amazing amp. Good luck. Also, consider cornwalls when choosing speakers. It all depends on the type of music you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 You can also get a nOrh SE-9 for $400 shipped to your door. It is a very nice EL34 based, single ended amplifier.for more info http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/norh_se9_e.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurdy_gurdyman Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I haven't had any new tube amps, but can relate to you what experience I've had with vintage. Heathkit makes a few nice amps that can be found at a reasonable price. The SA-2 is one of my favorites with nice Stancor output transformers and EL84 output tubes and 15 watts per channel. The same amps are available as mono separates called Ua-1 and Ua-2. Avoid the Heathkit printed circuit models like the AA-100, as these are not built to the same standard as the older hard wired models and the printed circuit boards deteriorate with age. They do have nice transformers, though. Avoid Heathkit preamps. I have never seen one worth bringing home. They do make a few nice tuners, though. I have a Fisher 500C receiver that is very musical sounding with a nice bouncy sounding bass and a slightly warm overall presentation. Very non-fatiguing and musical. About 35 watts/ch with 7591 output tubes. They also convert to 6L6GC, and, with a little more work, EL34's. I had an old Altec 353A amp from the early sixties that had Peerless output trannies and 6L6GC output tubes, 25 watts/ch. This amp sounded good, but not great. It did, however, have poor ventilation and ran HOT! Harman-kardon A-260 Chorale. This is a 25 watt/ch 6L6GC integrated amp that looks sharp with it's champagne gold faceplate. Well built. Sounded good with the 6L6GC output tubes, but sounded even better converted to EL34 tubes. One of the four best sounding amps I've owned. Belle 2024. A cheaper amp with small output transformers and 6V6 output tubes. This amp has midrange and treble to die for, but a weak bass. I put bigger transformers on it once and got good bass, but lost a bit of the midrange magic. Needs bigger coupling caps as well. Looks funky with it's early 60's unique styling. Eico makes nice sounding amps, but the only one I've owned was mono. Same with Stromberg-Carlson. Nice sounding, but I only had a mono unit. Well built, too. My current favorite is a Scott LK-48-B I've had for a couple of months. This is the kit version of the 222D integrated amp from the mid sixties. It has 7189 output tubes (heavy duty EL84's) and puts out 20 watts/ch. I love what this amp does to my Heresys! Best bass of any of the amps I've mentioned so far. Also, dead quiet at full volume with no signal. Cool! Everything else about the sound is at least equal to the other amps I've had. I don't think you could go wrong with a H.H.Scott! Any vintage amp you get will probably need some work, so keep that in mind. Many are worth it. Also, they all sound different. That's part of the fun, mixing and matching to come up with the perfect combination. Remember, with vintage amps, you can usually sell them and get your money back if you are not happy, especially the better known brands. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Dave, it's nice to see you have compared some of the amps I have looked at on eBay and wondered about their sound. I'm also happy to see you like your kit version 222D and that it has the best bass of all those amps. Now I know for sure I picked the right one . BTW, next time yer diggin down under, would you see and let us know which output tap is grounded? According to the diagram, the 4 Ohm tap should be grounded, but that's not always the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Obviously I'd go for an Eico HF-81 - with the right tubes (in this case Mullards) this amp sounds simply great. I think you should also bear in mind that vintage amps seem to like vintage tubes best. Now I know that many like their JJs or EHs, but at least for the Eico there was simply no contest - the vintage tubes were clearly superior (read: closer to life). So if you go vintage, don't forget tubes! Of recent designs I have heard very positive things said about Antique Sound Lab amps. I briefly listened to one of their 'bigger' (and more costly) amps utilizing four 300Bs. As far as one could tell it didn't do anything wrong - but ultimately I'd probably go vintage . Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 You are strictly in the range of vintage integrated. Scott or Eico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted October 28, 2003 Author Share Posted October 28, 2003 Nice to come in to work and have such good information posted in reply. Don't be shy, get your $.02 in here everyone. BTY, I listen to most everything except punk/acid rock, Pink Floyd to Wagner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I think Dean summed it up pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Look Fini was right. There it is again -- 2/10ths of a cent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 ---------------- On 10/28/2003 11:01:44 AM DeanG wrote: Look Fini was right. There it is again -- 2/10ths of a cent! ---------------- Wrong Dean. $.02 is OK. $.02 cents is not. I'm not very good with numbers but I think that's the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted October 28, 2003 Author Share Posted October 28, 2003 Not to be picky... but shouldn't that of been 2/100 cent? Which would still be incorrect. Assuming that $1.02 = One dollar and two cents, would not $.02 = just the two cents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I have heard nOrh's $399 "Class A" Single Ended SE9 Integrated Stereo Tube Amplifier on big ole horns and I would NOT recommend it. In my review for EnjoyTheMusic.com, The Little Engine that Could? I said that even at $400, the hefty nOrh SE9s is not that magically wonderful solution. It is a hefty performer, at a bargain-basement price for a Class A integrated stereo amplifier, shipped directly to your door from Thailand, but it is also a little engine that can't. I also seriously auditioned, in my own home, with the same music and equipment, for EnjoyTheMusic.com, the combination of $99 Antique Sound Labs (ASL) Wave 8s with a Dynaco Pas 2 Series II pre-amplifier. I loved their bright, punchy sound. In my opinion, you would be much better off with the excellent recommendations above or this combination. By the way, since the huge mid-range horn of the Klipschs classic corner horn is so accurate and pleasing, and since its corner position requires less floor space than conventional loudspeaker locations, the all-important Wife Acceptance Factor with Khorns and a tube front-end is quite high. The Khorns do NOT dominate the room like other loudspeakers; they are part of the wall. Without knowing what loudspeakers you have (since ourt profiles still do NOT list our equipment), my first choice for your solution would be to buy the very integrated tube amplifier NOSvalves or ASL can sell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Buy an old integrated from Scott, Fisher or Dynaco. Have it rebuilt by NOS Valves (Craig) or another person. If done correctly for considerably less than $800 you will have $ 2500 or more amp if purchased new. If I had the money I would love to hear my LK-48 against a Conrad Johnson, BAT or VTL integrated. I bet Craig's amp would smoke them. I mean my amp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Colin, I received a referral customer from someone at "Enjoy the Music". Was this you ? If so thanks ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMF Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I built a Dynaco PAS-2 lo! these many years past. Closest thing to a straight wire with gain I've ever heard. Gold plated contacts would have been very nice (they tended to get some corrosion). Decent phono eq - better then my cartridge. I was driving a mono home-built 2-way: folded corner horn based on an old Jensen (2D where the KH is 3D), and 800 Hz x-over to single horn above (amking it nearly 6' tall). Altec-Lansing Voice of the Theater components (15" sub). In a room with an actual corner and some good deep bass source, this thing could make the building shake! And driving it? A 15W tube amp. For the life of me I don't recall the brand. Heath? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 ---------------- On 10/28/2003 2:13:18 PM Audio Flynn wrote: If I had the money I would love to hear my LK-48 against a Conrad Johnson, BAT or VTL integrated. I bet Craig's amp would smoke them. I mean my amp! ---------------- Yeah right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 ---------------- On 10/28/2003 2:13:18 PM Audio Flynn wrote: ............ If I had the money I would love to hear my LK-48 against a Conrad Johnson, BAT or VTL integrated. I bet Craig's amp would smoke them. I mean my amp! ---------------- Audio Flynn, I'm not knocking NOS, but what have you been smoking? You've lost a bit of perspective there. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurdy_gurdyman Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 ---------------- On 10/28/2003 8:27:40 PM jazman wrote: ---------------- On 10/28/2003 2:13:18 PM Audio Flynn wrote: ............ If I had the money I would love to hear my LK-48 against a Conrad Johnson, BAT or VTL integrated. I bet Craig's amp would smoke them. I mean my amp! ---------------- Audio Flynn, I'm not knocking NOS, but what have you been smoking? You've lost a bit of perspective there. Klipsch out. ---------------- Well, maybe he isn't smoking anything. The best vintage amps were built to a quality standard as good as any today. If you rebuild one with modern high quality caps and such, it should have a sound quality very similar to the amps built today. The actual circuits used today are mostly based on the same circuits as those 40-60 years ago. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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