NOSValves Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I'm listening to the blues station on cable right now. I think the Blues is more to my liking then the Jazz for the most part unless you guys can come up with more snappy Jazz. What do you folks think of that ? Much more lively if you ask me. Which makes no sense to me at all. To me Jazz would equal snappy and Blues would equal depressing LOL !! Craig Any blues lovers here in Klipsch land! Darn mispelled the thread title ! Is there a way to fix that?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 In general, Jazz is more of an acquired taste than Blues since BLUES is really much closer to most Rock lovers since Rock was derived from the Blues. Most of the greatest rock guitarists worshipped blues artists and ripped many of the licks. Still, I find 95% of most blues bands, especially modern ones, to be a bit cliche and sappy. OF ALL THE FORMS OF MUSIC, the Blues needs someone with some direct experience in my view. I LOVE old blues in the vein of Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Fred McDowell, Junior Wells, etc. But I am not sure this is the blues you are referring to in your post. The more primitive the blues, the better in my view. Although I have to admit I did like the British guitar version in the 60s. Great jazz really takes some more exposure and listening time. And it's not usually done in the same vein of rock songs, especially pop, where it is catchy with a hook that brings it home. Just like any vein of music, the more exposure to the best, the more you will begin to appreciate what it has to offer. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Craig, Of course, it's just a matter of preference, but I am with you in my preference for blues. There might be someone out on the forum who could share a helpful word about the genre's. There often seems to be confusion about what is what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 It takes a conscious effort to keep an "open ear," to not dismiss what's out there because it might not be hip (too popular), or causes some disturbing reaction (maybe based on some pre-conceived notion, or what you're "used to") when you experience it. Just like art, food, people, climates, and shoes. Sometimes you (or it) has to wear-in and stretch a little before you're comfortable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tillmbil Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Craig, I am a blues lover myself. I reccomend getting "Riding with the King" featuring Eric Clapton and BB King. I play it a lot while I soak in the pool and my neighbors have complained when I don't have it on. I had no idea they could even hear it. It's one CD that does not get complaints on volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Fini speaks the truth, and this should be taken with anything... But of all genre's, like the bass guitar, the Blues is the easiest to imitate by a rock band, but ABOUT the hardest to do well. The 100000 blues bar bands around can leave you wishing for something with some substance. And in addition, in my view, some of the modern takes on Blues gets REALLY corrupted in the studio where the modern studio frosting gets added making it seem more sterile and and devoid of depth. I know that BB King and Clapton record got much praise but I just couldnt take to it as it sounded like it was run through an engineer's idea of what needs to be in modern recording. The production and arrangement seemed like it was candified for mass market release and ducat earning. I found it really uninspiring and heavy on a 90s take. That being said, many many loved it. But compared to the old recordings from either of those musicians, it seemed canned to me, like an "easy listening" of the Blues. Still, this is just my own opinion as it got hailed often. So much of the blues depends on authenticity, at least for the depth, substance, and emotion of the genre to emerge intact. A cheesy take can ruin it in a heartbeat. OF all the genres, there is more mediocre blues being done than anything I can think of with modern country music coming in close second, if not almost tied at this stage. Again, just my opinion; many others feel otherwise. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I tend to think of blues and jazz on some kind of continuum. An artist, like Dianna Krall, I suppose is probably recognized as a jazz musician, yet she's soulful and has so much heart, she seems blue's like in the way she sings. Where does one properly place her in terms of genre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 If you think Diana Krall has tons of soul and heart, may I suggest you get blown away by the soul and heart of Billie Holiday, Bessie Smith, Sarah Vaughan, etc. Man, I am trying my hardest to find modern takes that have this feeling. I do think Diana Krall's "Love Scenes" to be a fine CD, especially sonically. This CD does wonders with tubes and horns. The problem with the likes of someone like Billie Holiday or Bessie Smith is that the recording quality is relatively mediocre yet the emotion, soul, and feeling come through intact. It doesnt bother me as it becomes part of the presenation, but some are really put off but this. I just drove back from a show last night 2 hours away, and listened to a great mix of Billie Holiday my father had done years ago. I just was in awe the entire drive home. No matter how many times you hear her, each time you are reminded there was NO ONE like her, nor will there ever be in my view. It was a once in a lifetime thing. She is in her own class. She deserves everything said about her. I dont know where I would class the likes of Krall, Barber, Jones, etc. OF those, Krall has some of the most traditional stylings. And I do think "Love Scenes" is definitely worth picking up. I still think this is some kind of Jazz-Lite in a way, especially within a release like "Look of Love" which is laden with sappy string arrangements. She markets herself as a "Beauty" as well which doesnt help matters. Still, she has a fine voice but.... DAddyDee, have you sampled some Holiday - Vaughan - Smith etc? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Craig, The term "jazz" is a broader term than "blues". Jazz can include everything from Paul Whiteman to Ray Charles. The jazz you might grow to like might be the variety which is closer to the feel of the blues. There is a lot of jazz which is instrumentalization of the blues. If it is the dramatic effect of blues vocal that you mostly like, jazz (blues) might seem cool by comparison. To find the jazz you might like it is will not only entail exploring the varieties of jazz that exist, but also various historical eras and inevitably a variety of sonic quality from primitive to state of the art. You cannot find the jazz you will like without a major educational process involving recommendations, books, music purchase speculations, video presentations etc. There is no reason that some jazz listening cannot suppliment your primary attraction to blues. C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I am replacing the windows in my kitchen right now. I amisin g the Blqack Lion CDS to bLow out t t he old oner e ws qwk,dfkfgkmbaaAE+{pA {TH, BO]M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Blues all the way! Well you can add in some rock and roll now and then. I've tried to listen to jazz a few times but find it so boring. You shouldn't have to aquire a taste for anything. It should grab you by the you know what right from the begining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 We really don't know what happened to the "member" known as fini. We know this: he was listening to some jazz cds, some sort of Black Lion stuff, when he mysteriously drifted off, blowing out glass, blowing his *** off, glowing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 ---------------- On 12/8/2003 3:21:44 PM Q-Man wrote: Blues all the way! Well you can add in some rock and roll now and then. I've tried to listen to jazz a few times but find it so boring. You shouldn't have to aquire a taste for anything. It should grab you by the you know what right from the begining. ---------------- No sense in reading a book more than once, either. Complex art forms like jazz deserve a bit more effort, with a huge reward for those willing to make that effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Bully for you! Personally I find much electric blues from the past 30 years to be formulaic and boring. If you're talkin' about Muddy, Willie Dixon, Howlin' Wolf, etc. then I can appreciate where you're coming from. There is a raw energy in this music that is very hard not to love and be drawn in by. Some people never "get" jazz no matter how much they try and that's too bad. I don't "get" Wagner (all Opera, acutally) and I'm sure I'm poorer for it. I have honestly tried, but it's just not for me . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 "You shouldnt have to acquire a taste for anything???? It should grab you by the seat of the pants from the very beginning???? " Wow. This seems foreign to me. Man... Perhaps this explains things. I applaud some for making an effort. I often find the BEST songs are the ones that dont grab you first. Add to this the forms of music where things take a while to uncover...What is under the surface might not always be the first to be noticed. Man, I couldnt disagree more with this philosophy, in all aspects of life, not just music. As exposure is increased to anything, appreciation usually develops in some way. Often the most catchy has the least depth as well. I find people that dont know much about a genre tend to lump the whole mass into one category stating it "all sounds the same" yet with more exposure, are able to hone in on differences. This goes for everything, whether it be music, design, art, AUDIO etc. To call jazz boring is to miss a good part of what is good about it. On the other hand, I do agree with Allan in that sometimes, some things just wont materialize. I have had the hardest time with opera as well, but prefer a live performance to a recording. Same with musicals. If you find jazz a bit of a tough nut to crack, may I suggest going to a jazz club with a REALLY good combo and see it LIVE in the club. A live performance can sometimes bring it home internally/emotionally. I did not FULLY appreciate jazz until in my late teens-early 20s even thought I grew up with it being playted every day. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 The beginning of it all, Jazz, Blues, Rock and Roll, is Afro American Spirituals. From the spiritual stemmed the blues, from the blues, came jazz and rock and roll. It's important to have some understanding of the chain. Jazz very often entails an instrumental interpretation of emotion. Not always easy for some to understand. Yet the vocals of Joe Williams and many others address the Blues though you will always find him in the Jazz section. To hear someone say that Jazz is boring, is really saying they have limited exposure to jazz music. Jazz is an extension of the blues and very prevelant in so many works of Jazz artists like Miles, Mingus, Coltrane, etc. Miles grew up in East St. Louis Il, where the Blues could be heard in so many corner clubs, and was a big influence on him. The Blues and Jazz are VERY connected. As for Ms Krall, her "soulful" singing ranks way, way, under the radar of Jazz singers mentioned by Kelly. I would include so many other like Shirley Horn, Betty Carter, Dinah Washington, Nina Simone, Dianna Reeves, Nancy Wilson, etc, etc,. The list is very long. I've ofter said that when I hear Ms Krall, she seems to be a Shirley Horn wannabe. Jazz is not everyone's cup of tea. Probably not yours until you are more accustomed to listening instead of hearing. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Good points here, guys. On a side note, the genesis of the "blue" note itself is quite interesting. It is theorized that black African slaves brought with them simple, pentatonic melodies. The blue note (essentially a bent or minor third or seventh against Major harmony) resulted from the juxtaposition of the two scales, as singers tried to reconcile the two. Brings to mind a favorite (paraphrased) quote from Miles- "In jazz, if you play a wrong note, just play it again. It'll sound like you did it on purpose." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 "In jazz, if you play a wrong note, just play it again. It'll sound like you did it on purpose." Not only JAZZ, ANYTHING! Hell, this is the #1 rule for a musician playing live in some sort of jam or solo - Wrong note? Do it twice or vary it to confuse the loons with a pattern! IF you do it about five times, it's even better! heh... Besides wrong notes done in the right order can be beautiful, indeed. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Speaking of great Miles Davis quotes: To John Coltrane who was lamenting his inability to finish his solos--he just couldn't figure out how to end them: "Take the horn out of your mouth." To Columbia Records execs upon seeing the cover of "Miles Ahead" (the infamous cover with a white chick in a straw hat on a sailboat): "Who's that white bi!ch?" (2nd pressings had a picture of Miles blowing his horn) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 DAddyDee, have you sampled some Holiday - Vaughan - Smith etc? kh ---------------- I've listened to a little Billie Holiday on some jazz sampler CD, but havn't made much of an effort here. I'd appreciate a suggestion or two as to albums to start with. My favorite Krall CD is Live In Paris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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