garymd Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 ---------------- On 1/7/2004 10:32:13 PM Allan Songer wrote: Ownership of firearms should NOT be an automatic right of every non-felon adult in the the USA. I am all for making sure someone KNOWS HOW TO HANDLE a gun before letting them own one. Sorta like not allowing someone to buy a new pickup and drive it down the road without being checked out first. I am a die-hard left-leaning Democrat who will NEVER vote Republican EVER and I own a couple of guns (a Glock and a 12-guage pump). You know, for when the revolution comes . . . Here's my theory about Bush and Bin Laden. I think our spooks have him in a cage somewhere and I think he'll be "captured" at some opportune time. How about mid to late October? ---------------- I'm part of the right wing conspiracy Allan but I LMAO on that one. That was funny. How long do you think we held Saddam in that hole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 They called that a "spider hole" it was really an A$$ Hole! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 What I don't get about threads like these is, do you guys actually think someone is going to change their mind after reading any of this? Sometimes a link, an idea, or a reference might provide new information to someone so they can form their own opinions based on that information. You have no proof that President Bush is lying. No proof! A very entertaining and enlightening book on the subject of lies is Lies And the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by funny man Al Franken. I couldn't help noticing Dubya's picture on the cover..... Regarding PNAC: like Mel Brooks once said Its good to be King.....(of the World, that is.....) and maybe that is, after all, the American Dream...... Lo and Behold, Ive turned into a !@#$%^&* Spammer.....Well somebody had to do it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 C&S we all really should have taken up these discussions at Max's bar on Friday. Amazingly we all amicably agree to disagree. That is what makes America great and free. I am a Conservative but I want to keep Liberals around to watch out for excesses. Just not too many. 150 in the House and 39 in the Senate seems a good balance to me. Am I asking too much? Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Yes, there is an impressive civility hereabouts these days and is reminiscent of the vision of America we all hold dear and why this country is so great. Have you seen any of those amicable presentations by Clinton and Dole, same kind of civility, a real pleasure and a good reminder of the process. C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Well this might get me banned but has seriously silenced a room on many occasions over a period of many years... An old man is out fishing near a honeymoon resort one morning and an obvious honeymooner steps into the stream early one AM. The old man says to the newlywed:" Son: You are on your honeymoon, what the hell are you doing out here?" The newlywed says " I found out my wife has gonorrhea!" The old man says "oh I'm sorry...say, did you ever think about, you know, that oral thing? The newlywed : Hey, maybe I'll give it a try,thanks! Good luck fishing Next morning, there's the old man and here comes the newlywed again! Old man: what are you doing out in this stream again? Did you try my advice? Honeymooner: Yeah but, she has pyorreah! Old man: Oh, I'm sorry....say, did you ever think about,you know, uh, rolling her over? Honeymooner: DOH, no it never occured to me , maybe tonight! How's the fishing? Next morn. The old guy is out fishing and again here comes the newlywed! Old man: What the hell? What are you doing here again? Did you try what I suggested? Honeymooner: I tried, I tried but she has diarrhea! Old man: Good God, this women has gonorrhea, pyorrhea, and diarrhea, what ever did you marry her for? Honeymooner: Well, she's got worms and I like to fish! Sorry, hope this stops this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 WARNING - the following is something of a liberal's rant - if your political leaning is to the right of Al Gore you might want to skip this bit: ...I thought that would include most of humanity... I am relatively well off - a success in society if you like. I have a decent household income, nice toys, cars, clothes etc. etc. I spend a proportion of my income to protect these things (locks on windows, burglar alarms, insurance and so on - add in a gun for US equivalents, ammo etc.) I am a "have" in society and am keen to protect myself from the "have-nots". Max, my brother falls into this catagory along with the guilt-ridden feelings you display here. Let me share some thoughts I have just to this point. -There will ALWAYS be haves and have nots in the world, no matter what wealth redistribution scheme is tried. Some of the reasons are, we are all different and motivated by differing things to differeng levels. I'm sure some would look at me and think I am a "have", while compared to others, I am a "have-not". I was REALLY motivated while in my 20s to own a pair of KHorns. I tended to be a steady employee, so job security and credit allowed me to become one of the "haves" in this regard. I was also motivated to work overtime when available. Some of my then buddies were content to work 8 hours and come home and pop open a six-pack. Some people will not keep a steady job, opting instead to do other things. Yet others were motivated enough in their youth to stay in school and complete their education, postponing their desires for things like KHorns. I failed to do this and am, in comparison to many in this educated class, a "have-not". I realize I am in this position because of MY choices and lack of futuristuic vision while young. No part of society (or government, which is funded by society) should be burdened with me for I am where I am because of MY actions (or inaction) and choices. In our country, the goal is not that everyone is born equal, as that is an impossible to achieve goal. But everyone has an equal opportunity under the law to persue their vision. Is it harder for some than others? You bet! Should society extend a helping hand to those really in need? You bet! But despite our best efforts, there will still be those with and those with less and without. The society that rewards those who create and produce will prosper. Societies which devised grand wealth redistribution schemes (like the Soviet Union, et al) have had their economies collapse. There must be some constraints against greed (in both the members of society as well as governmental greed), for if the number of have-nots is too great and their frustration level is high enough, the recipe for revolution will begin cooking. This is one of my favorite explainations why socialism does not work (or you can see a short video here): YOU ARE THE SPENDER* Category I in the table refers to your spending your own money on yourself. You shop in a supermarket, for example. You clearly have a strong incentive both to economize and to get as much value you can for each dollar you spend. Category II refers to your spending your own money on someone else. You shop for Christmas or birthday presents. You have the same incentive to get full value for your money, at least as judged by the tastes of the recipient. You will, of course, want to get something the recipient will like -- provided that it also makes the right impression and does not take too much time and effort. (If, indeed, your main objective were to enable the recipient to get as much value as possible per dollar, you would give him cash, converting your Category II spending to Category I spending. Category III refers to your spending someone else's money on yourself -- lunching on an expense account, for instance. You have no strong incentive to keep down the cost of the lunch, but you do have a strong incentive to get your money's worth. Category IV refers to your spending someone else's money on still another person. You are paying for someone else's lunch out of an expense account. You have little incentive either to economize or try to get your guest the lunch that he will value most highly. However, if you are having lunch with him, so that the lunch is a mixture of Category III and Category IV, you do have a strong incentive to satisfy your own tastes at the sacrifice of his, if necessary. *From the book "Free To Choose" as published by Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, Inc. *Special thanks to The Friedman Foundation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 kind of makes the Bush family ties to the Bin Laden family just a little bit suspect......if you have any imagination at all...... No problem with imagination (or emotions) on your part there, Clipped! A very entertaining and enlightening book on the subject of lies is Lies And the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by funny man Al Franken. ...and what a wonderful source of unbiased factual information! C&S, yer killin me! But hey, feel the love anyway! Those who think we will not change anyone's minds are partially right. The fight is over the undecided or middle of the roaders. The fight should also be to get the truth into the debate and the emotions out. This is a tough task as emotions can distort what we perceive to be true for all of us. Wow, I can't spell tonight! Hence the edits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 BTW, my sources in Poland tell me they're getting ready to ship Saddam's nukes back to Iraq for discovery...just not yet decided whether it should be before or after the capture of OBL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Gunman---The camera is a 3.2 Sony set at 1280x960, I thought the picture would be smaller. Yeah, SMLEs are fun to shoot; very fast, smooth action. Definately the best bolt-action combat rifle ever made. I like the ugly looks too, thing looks purposeful. My grandfather was an Old Contempible, 1st Bat. Royal Irish Fusiliers, one of the small army of British Regulars who went into Belgium in 1914 at the start of The Great War; long service professionals many with experience soldiering in India and such places. Every Regular soldier had to qualify yearly in the "mad minute": 15 rounds into a 2' circle at 300 yards in one minute. Pretty damned fancy shooting and I don't think any other bolt gun would be capable of that kind of speed. The Krag might have the speed of action but has a lousy magazine. I used to have an 03A3, sold it to a buddy of mine. Nice rifle, very accurate but much slower (and harder kicking) than the SMLE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Andy, Just to clear up a point in my diatribe. I am not suggesting that all "haves" should have the same in terms of value. I am suggesting that once a foot is on the ladder any individual in society has more to lose from committing a violent crime than they have to gain. I imagine that if you surveyed your prison population yo would find that an enormous proportion of them would be classed firmly as "have-nots", specifically having not that most important of all items - hope for the future outside of crime. As for the rest in thread - we have creationism, terrorism, government corruption, fascism, communism and fruit loops (did I miss anything?). Cant quite see how gun control fits into any of this. Cant resist making a couple more points though (can I ever?): 1. Communism and fascism are at opposite ends of the political spectrum, but, actually tend towards each other (meaning that politics is circular in a way). Compare Stalin and Mao to fascist dictators in their means of establishing and maintaining rule. They differ very little from Hitler in reality, except that they both actually probably killed or caused the deaths of far more people than even Adolph managed. 2. A gun in not much defence against a 9/11 type attack - unless that gun was on the plane and used successfully against each of the 5 terrorists I believe were there. 3. Gun control is not the same as unilateral disarmament. The UK has strict gun control but you may have noticed they also maintain an army, a navy and an airforce of which 25% is currently based in Basra. 4. Creationism. To the best of my knowledge God has never owned, nor used, a gun. Aside from that Dean - you are correct, there are many problems with science establishing the mechanisms for evolution but I do not see that this makes it wrong - merely that we are still trying to understand it. On the flip-side for creationism (as I understand it) to be correct so many other areas have to be wrong that it becomes less and less likely to be correct. Just to illustrate, as I understand creationism a basic tenant is that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. This raises a number of questions: 1. What are fossils? 2. How big is the universe? (not as insane a question as it might appear - if you accept, for example, that this Galaxy we are in - the Milky Way - is 200,000 light years across - how can we see the far side? Not to mention the other galaxies that are far more distant?) 3. What is the Hubble telescope looking at? 4. In the genetic study of mankind Mitrochonridal DNA can be used to trace our Homo Sapiens route back 18,000 years to a single woman in africa. How is this wrong? 5. The frozen carcasses of Wooly Mamoths have been dug up in Siberia and dated to 12,000 years old. Wrong again? 6. In the study of Geology it is believed that all the continents of the world were originally a single super continents called PanGaia. This broke up into separate but still linked supercontinents (Gondwanaland) and the continents then continued to drift apart to the current layout. This process is still on-going and eventually it is believed that the Pacific ocean will disappear with America colliding with Japan. If you look at the rates of continental drift and work out the time it would take for Pangaia to come to the current layout you need a minimum of 5 million years. There are, of course, many many other examples. The above list, however, indicates that the following sciences are fundamentally flawed for creationism to be correct: 1. Paleantology. 2. Astronomy. 3. Genetics. 4. Biology. 5. Geology. Along with numerous other sciences dependent, or related to these including chemistry, physics, medicine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunman45 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 ---------------- On 1/7/2004 9:52:06 PM Clipped and Shorn wrote: "I wonder what they said about Klinton and his lies before a grand jury and ensuing disbarment? blah blah...." Clinton lying about a blow job and Bush's lies that are costing the lives of hundreds of American sons and daughters and tens of thousands of civilians in foreign lands (and still counting)....what a comparison! What a comparison! Don't tell me Americans are not messed up about sex. Murder and Violence=no big deal. Blow job=big deal. right, and Dick Cheney is not a criminal..... ---------------- What was happing in Iraq while Klinton was getting his job? What was OBL planning while Klinton was turning OUR White House into his personal ***** House? The liberals said it was Klintons Military that did such a good job in Iraq. Klinton in 98 said before the whole world that Iraq had WMD. Why is it not Klintons CIA that provided the information????? Hilly on Meet the Press said that we received erroneous information? Why does the HATEFUL left not listen to her? By the by, you may want to look at what Klinton did with Iraqs oil in December of 1998 and you may want to look into whos family is on the board of directors and controls a huge percentage of stock at Halliburton! (hint, if you run into Lady Bird Johnsons family, dont be surprised) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunman45 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 ---------------- On 1/7/2004 10:32:13 PM Allan Songer wrote: Ownership of firearms should NOT be an automatic right of every non-felon adult in the the USA. I am all for making sure someone KNOWS HOW TO HANDLE a gun before letting them own one. Sorta like not allowing someone to buy a new pickup and drive it down the road without being checked out first. I am a die-hard left-leaning Democrat who will NEVER vote Republican EVER and I own a couple of guns (a Glock and a 12-guage pump). You know, for when the revolution comes . . . Here's my theory about Bush and Bin Laden. I think our spooks have him in a cage somewhere and I think he'll be "captured" at some opportune time. How about mid to late October? ---------------- So then you dont believe that it should be an automatic right to assemble, to be secure in our person or be innocent until proven guilty? What test would you give to allow us those aforementioned rights? A right is right. The only thing you could possibly do in change the constitution and make gun ownership a privilege for the Elite Classes as it was in England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluless Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 BAN FRUIT LOOPS? NOT ON YOUR LIFE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Beautiful Clue!!! "1. Communism and fascism are at opposite ends of the political spectrum, but, actually tend towards each other (meaning that politics is circular in a way). Compare Stalin and Mao to fascist dictators in their means of establishing and maintaining rule. They differ very little from Hitler in reality, except that they both actually probably killed or caused the deaths of far more people than even Adolph managed." Max that is the point I was trying to make. The circular continium where the all powerful socialist state on the right joins the all powerful socialist state on the left. Our job as citizens is to keep our governments on the opposite side of the circle. Not too far right or too far left. Keep the majority from persecuting the minority and maintain a system that rewards hard work and initiative rather than connections to the powerful determining ones well being. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 ---------------- On 1/8/2004 8:04:31 AM cluless wrote: http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/files/loop.jpg"> BAN FRUIT LOOPS? NOT ON YOUR LIFE! ---------------- I see our friend is using that famous Indonesian assault rifle - If I remember correctly it is a Machino Artillero Unified Calibrated Automatic Weapon (MAUCAW) 007 - I hear it has a feather touch trigger... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syclone385 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Exactly my point Gunman45, I have seen the very same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunman45 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Tbrennan Yeah, SMLEs are fun to shoot; very fast, smooth action. Definately the best bolt-action combat rifle ever made. I like the ugly looks too, thing looks purposeful. There is more and better lumber in those things than in my new sofa and loveseat combined. My grandfather was an Old Contempible, 1st Bat. Royal Irish Fusiliers, one of the small army of British Regulars who went into Belgium in 1914 at the start of The Great War; long service professionals many with experience soldiering in India and such places. Every Regular soldier had to qualify yearly in the "mad minute": 15 rounds into a 2' circle at 300 yards in one minute. Pretty damned fancy shooting and I don't think any other bolt gun would be capable of that kind of speed. The Krag might have the speed of action but has a lousy magazine. The 03s bolt was like a round peg in a square hole, it fit but not too well. I have forgotten about the Krag. I always imagined the poor soul, in a dire situation and on horseback trying to reload that magazine under fire. I used to have an 03A3, sold it to a buddy of mine. Nice rifle, very accurate but much slower (and harder kicking) than the SMLE. If you look at the stock dimensions, the SMLE s a little straighter than the 03 and though I have not looked at the ballistics for some time I believe the 06 ball has a bit more torque. Bell who was a White Hunter in Africa and a game management officer used to practice with the 303 SMLE on cormorants, though he used a 7X5 Mauser on elephants (akin to playing tag with a Greyhound bus on the freeway in a Morris Minor) he was known to hit 9 out of 10, flying, at 200 + yards. The kid was good and it does say something for the hardware! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syclone385 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Ban Fruit loops NO WAY! I would have to turn to a life of crime to satisfy my addiction to red dye #5! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syclone385 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Ban Fruit loops NO WAY! I would have to turn to a life of crime to satisfy my addiction to red dye #5! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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