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HornEd sees Red...


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Looks like the "Good Guys" have become bad guys when it comes to Klipsch. From the discussion I had today at my local authorized dealers, I withdrew my order for a black RC-7 and will find some other source... probably out of state... or some other solution.

It seems that the Good Guys have a growing anti-Klipsch attitude that I have noticed in several area stores. In the Daly City store where I have bought the most Klipsch products,the Good Guys have kept their demo pair of RF-7's and an RC-7 in the box... cherry they say... and likely to stay that way! Management says they do not have room on the floor for these bellwether Klipsch products.

The big push in specialty speakers is BOSE... and that is where they spend their floor space. They claim they have no competition on Klipsch so the loyal Klipschers (like me) have no other choice. Even their best informed Klipsch guy hasn't much of a clue as to what the new speakers are all about... his head is full of thumpity, thump, thump 15" woofers he just put in his new Mustang... but in fairness, this young "Good Guy" has tried hard to accommodate my desires and that of other Klipsch fanciers... If I happen to walk up to a Klipsch and an unfamiliar salesman approaches... the odds are heavily in favor that he will try to pull me over to considering an other than Klipsch alternative.

Now, friends, years ago one of the services that the company I built offered was a "shopping" service where in our operatives would shop a client's location and make a formal report on the outcome. I, personally, designed that reporting system to be as fair and objective as I could... with a thrust toward improving the technique of sales personnel. It would be thoroughly out of character for me to be hasty or personally affronted to the point of saying there is a problem in any retail location. That would be small change... I just don't like to see other consumers being shortchanged on their exposure to Klipsch products.

Now I find from the new manager's policies translate into a penalty situation to buy what is supposed to be Klipsch trendsetters. The only way I can see and hear a black RC-7 I have to put down a non-refundable 50% of MSRP deposit... with no courtesy discount as a volume buyer applied to special order items.

Maybe they were upset that I bought an SVS sub to explore the first octave... but that seems fair... because it was my money and I already had bought four Klipsch subwoofers from Good Guys.

In fact, at this store I have bought or dozen or so of Klipsch speakers (No, BobG, I actually gave some away as gift starter systems to deserving folks), a Yamaha RX-V3000, Progressive DVD player, a special order six-head SVHS unit and a 65" RPHD Mitsu... all for cash green money over the past six months. Maybe that is not much from the store's perspective... but it certainly has my attention.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't read any riot acts... or even enumerate my purchases... I just came back to this BB to ease my blood pressure. It's a good thing that this BB exists as a place to talk Klipsch to people who care enough to correct me when I am wrong... tolerate me when I try to add a note of humor... and show me the way when I seem confused.

Has anyone else had this kind of "Good Guys" experience?

Meanwhile... cwm23.gif HornEd sees Red

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I can understand your frustration. I haven't personally had that experience, but I have seen similar things happen to other customers. I didn't even know those customers and it still ticked me off. You have probably already seen the post "Frustrated Klipscher..." in the Home Theater forum.

If you do have to buy out-of-state, I would highly recommend Sound Ideas in Albuquerque. They are probably one of the best Klipsch dealers around. In fact, PWK seemed to be a relatively frequent visitor to their store back in his younger days. They are true audiophiles there, and once had on display a Klipshorn-based home theater room(4 Khorns, 1 Belle).


Loren Bishop

Sound Ideas

1624 Eubank NE

Albuquerque, NM 87112

(505) 292-1188

www.soundideasnm.com (still under construction)

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

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Come to Greece HornEd.

You will get the reverse.

"Hello, I am looking for a new refridgerator."

"KLF 30's are really cool, or RF3's if you want a smaller capacity."

Do you know how hard it is to buy BOSE in Greece? LOL

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Ah yes, maxg, I have fond memories of Greece in the early 60's when I lived, worked and studied in Europe... enchanting people, great pasta but a little early for KLF 30's. I still wear a Greek invention, a functional Astrolabe (A geocentric forerunner of the sextant from 32 B.C. updated for this millennium by a local scholar) around my neck at medieval festivals across the U.S. Such a device gave Chaucer, Columbus, and George Washington the time of day and a proper course... too bad it won't work on local Klipsch dealers.

I am still intrigued by the prospect you raised in another thread about facing classic Klipsch speakers in marble. Some years ago, I bought the remaining stacks of thin marble slabs and Terrazzo tile in the yards and warehouses of a defunct tile and marble company. It took years to use it all in various buildings... and a magnificent Olympic swimming and diving pools.

Yes, maxg, I have a healthy respect for living and working with marble. Sadly, it seems like the sonic grade marble around here has gone to the heads of locally authorized cwm9.gif Klipsch dealers.

Thanks for bringing back great memories of warm people, great sailing and a truly classic land in every respect. May they continue to know the fruits of their civilization by having the new Klipsch to hear and view at their dealers without hassle. HornEd

PS: Then again, New Mexico is just a motorhome ride away and this thread is not the first good words I have heard about that particular Klipsch dealer.

This message has been edited by HornEd on 06-15-2001 at 09:33 AM

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Recently I was at my local Klipsch dealer (Audio Warehouse) and my saleman friend Mark & I were discussing the reference line and Klipsch speakers in general.

When Mark & I were chatting about Klipsch, he commented that he had a helluva time keeping the RF3's in their main high-end listening room. Said that everytime he put them there and came back from a day off, they'd be back out on the floor. He also said that the other two salemen and the owner (Phil) were so prejudice that they refused to really listen to the speakers. Instead, they steer folks towards their B&W, Tannoy, ADS line (thankfully they don't carry Blose). Mark has even tried to get them to do a double blind listening test but said they refused. Mark's convinced they're afraid they'll pick the Klipsch speakers. And get this - Mark said that last year he asked Phil to order as many RF3's as he could get. Phil said no cause he didn't think they would sell and instead ordered a boat load of ADS towers. Well, Mark can't get RF3's fast enough and the ADS's are still in the warehouse gathering dust. Mark said he was trying very hard to get Phil to consider carrying at least the Heresy's along with the RF line. He told me that Klipsch rep would be in this week and was hoping the rep would show his fellow salesman and Phil the light.

I think the only person more frustrated than you HornEd is Mark!!

Tom Adams

This message has been edited by Tom Adams on 06-29-2001 at 02:05 PM

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Here is a possible solution. I don't know if they will allow a demo of the system. That might be a Good Guy's policy, but the Good Guy store in Modesto, yes a heck of a ride from Daily city. (1.5 hrs or so) is pretty damm good. Heck! They even matched a price I got from an authorized Klipsch dealer in NY that was willing to ship to me since I bought other product from them before I moved to California. They had a whole room set up with the Klipsch reference system just to sit down and listen in. A class store.

Just wanted to let you know.


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a good example by bigrob that it's sometimes store specific due to that local manager.

ed, i'd go to that store manager's like regional manager & express your disdain. or maybe they even have that type feedback on their website.

good luck w/ that situation. strong demand usually finds it's own markets. though helps us more to have efficient/effective distrib. systems. cwm1.gif


Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear)

Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer

Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable

Marantz SR-8000 receiver

Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player

Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv

Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr

Technics dual cassette deck

Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box

Boa's Listenin Lounge:

Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear)

Monster MCX Biwires

Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver

Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975)

Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3

Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer

Technics SL-1950 turntable/AT LS500 cartridge

Sega Genesis game player

Sub: None yet

rock on!

This message has been edited by boa12 on 06-15-2001 at 06:16 PM

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Ed, I just love driving right past my local dealer to buy from other dealers.One of my local goof ball dealers believes I'm obligated to buy from him,it seems.Recently got fed up with his BS attitude and left that store to buy the mother-in-laws HT system elsewhere.He lost a $4700 sell.Maybe he don't give a crap.Hey,I don't either.That was when I ran across the pretty good deal on the Denon 3801.That dealer,about an hour away,appreciates my business.My advice-go where

your business is appreciated.Good luck!


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Gee, guys, it sure is nice to hear that my case is not an isolated one... and, better yet, that there are some really good Klipsch dealers worth patronizing. In fact, I am making a list of the good dealers you guys have suggested so I can pass them on to my friends, acquaintances and maybe even an ex-wife or two!

I hope you understand that I am really not interested in having a salesman lick my boots because of my purchases... I just don't like a store that ignores (and refuses to build) a demand for Klipsch speakers in one of the most expensive to live areas in the whole U.S.A. All my personal purchases point to is that, hey look Mr. Manager, there are some Klipsch fans who also walk the walk. Hey, looking at the price on our gas pumps, even the oil companies know that there is much more business for the "Hope/Indy" speaker connection than Klipsch has collected.

I hate to think that I was born and raised in a land of "Bose-ohs" as some high volume store managers would have me believe.

Now that the long awaited R_7 series can finally make the scene of our neighborhood dealer... it is so sad to find the showerooms R_7 empty! Frown.gif Our beloved Klipsch minions may not be at liberty to shake their authorized dealer tree on this board... but we little guys "who care enough to horn the very best" ought to continue sharing good dealers for the benefit of all... especially you lurkers! cwm1.gif HornEd

This message has been edited by HornEd on 06-16-2001 at 06:24 AM

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I have left several posts on how bad my Local Good Guys store is regarding Klipsch. I spent thousands there and I will not drop another cent their way.

I will take my chances on non authorized internet dealers. After all I can't get screwed any greater from them then from my local store.

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RWMIN, did Wild West stop carrying Klipsch? It's been several years since I bought a KG2.2v and KG.5's from them. At that time, they would deal......

Sounds like GOOD GUYS needs to train some folks..(Honesty IS a virtue!)

Take care


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I just want to put my 2 cents in on this subject. I have the same feelings toward good guys. Just two years ago here in Sacramento you could go to good guys and find a full line of Klipsch speakers to listen to. Now your lucky to see anything other than the quintet system or any kind of center speaker.

I would like to see klipsch get their domonance back in the major retail stores.


This message has been edited by montigue on 06-19-2001 at 01:08 PM

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If you need a reputable auth dealer, my buddy here in NY would love to help ya! Nice fellow and loves selling Klipsch. Let me know. and same goes for everyone else if you have a trouble dealer like Good Guys (yuck).


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Back to the bowling with cubes eh? Sounds like BobG should be kicking some butt!

Push the Product(seen it MANY times), who cares what you like, and after what YOU have done HornEd, someone needs a wake up call! I too have taken to the SVS sub myself(not an owner yet)but if the new RSW-15 doesn't cut it with the Heritages I'm history, who cares. My local Dealer actually knows this, I gave him the website for SVS to check out, and he even steered me to the KEF TDM-45B subwoofers.

You should move to Canada, at least here(Alberta) they are more than glad to show Klipsch's product and let you decide. My local Dealer would LOVE a guy like you. I'm willing to bet if you want it, he'd ship it, hey, thats what NFTA's for.

Regardless, you have every right to be pissed!

This message has been edited by boomer9911 on 06-17-2001 at 12:22 AM

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Wild West does not sell Klipsch anymore. I went there for my KLF C7 when I was told by Good Guys (2 years ago) that is was discontinued. I had to buy an RS 3 for my KLF 10's. Thanks to this board and Bobg I ended up with the correct center and I was also able to order some KLF 30's elsewhere as those were also discontinued with the Center.

It was Good Guys who discontinued the line and yet they failed to inform me of that so I thought Klipsch discontinued the line. I had to buy what they had in if I wanted something from the Legend line (KLF 10's).

Thanks again to the board I now have what I wanted. Only problem is I am still paying for it all and yearning for a listen of the new line.

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While I am never one to support a store or sales person who will not allow people access to Klipsch, I must add a brief comment or two.

At the time of HornEd's visit to the Good Guys, I doubt they had RF-7's in stock. Don't think we shipped by that date and even if we had shipped the very first units, it takes GG's some time to get new product from their distribution center to the stores. Again, no defense of what seems to be a very bad in-store experience. Lunkhead store personnel are a major frustration.

Second comment is that to my knowledge, Good Guys is actually increasing support for Klipsch products. This may not be evident at the store near you, but they are committed to carrying a wider assortment of Klipsch than in the past.

Bottom line is never accept poor treatment. It's YOUR $ that keeps the entire process turning. If a sales person is not cooperative, ask for the manager. If he is not cooperative, ask for his boss. I know this sounds as if it is up to you to correct poor store performance, but it works and may be better than driving long distances to find a better dealer.

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Sorry, BobG, but this is one time either you are mistaken or the sales and management staff at Daly City Good Guys is. Cherry RF-7's and an RC-7 are sitting in boxes in their store and I was told in no uncertain terms that they would stay there until someone bought them or some room could be found in the showroom. That's what upset me. While I am more voracious as a consumer than demanding a consumer, I thought that after the first $10k (and I am way beyond that this year) or so they would at least open the box and give me a demo. Frankly, cherry doesn't match the rest or I would have bought the RC-7 they had for display. The store has recently acquired a new head guy and the rest of the staff seems to be quivering a bit as they jockey for position. But, that is not my fault... actually, I came in just to check when the R_-7 might arrive and was told they were there but they did not have any immediate plans to display them as per the new manager's orders.

I am a tall, 280 lb person with a full beard and long hair from my medieval festival performances... and a reputation for buying for myself and others that has every salesman smiling as I enter. As a veteran CEO, I have the ability to be very demanding... but now that I am retired, I am trying to quit. Yes, BobG, I intimately know the hassles of a retail sales floor and, therefore, would be among the first to give a store the benefit of the doubt. It is not only the convenience of a neighborhood Klipsch outlet that I lose in my dissatisfaction... it is the "bargaining power" that past purchases have given me on better deals that come available in the store.

Due to my experience and (hopefully) gracious attitude with store personnel, the better salesman there tend to gather round with sales technique and Klipsch questions. Sadly, I am much better on the former than the latter... but still way ahead of these Good Guys.

Frankly, the Klipsch based sound system that was built to stimulate my mother's cognition is not bad as it stands. And I will probably buy another as a gift to my son who took the time to come visit for a couple of weeks as a father's day present. As a retired person with comfortable transportation, a long drive to a satisfied end is far preferable to a short drop into sales stupidity.

I realize, BobG, that it is in the Klipsch interest to build a positive relationship to its stores... but in that direction, to suggest that the Klipsch name and RF-7 nomenclature was not on the box boosts the stores credibility at the expense of one who has been, in the main, positively Klipsch oriented. It should be possible to boost the store without trashing the customer. Your "Horn-Edifying" posts, BobG, have been a primary reason for frequent perusal of this board. When you have found my posts wanting, I have appropriately posted mea culpas and/or explanatory follow-ups. Whatever your opinion of me, be it known that I have tried at every turn to boost this board, your products old and new, and the K-staffers and members that make it special. I wasn't looking for any special favors from Good Guys... or this board... just the "fair shake" good business practices imply. There is far more joy than gloom on this board... far more help than hurt... the staff gives us posters good natured jibes when we need it... and allows posters equally well intended opportunities to point out potential stumbling blocks to Klipsch success. I hope that backbone of candor and good will may grow as our favorite speaker company seems to be giving up expanding Hope to spend more time in the land of the "fast track."

After my less than wonderful experience, I have done some research into how Good Guys sales personnel view Klipsch and the Klipsch promotional team effort. Like everything else, there is room for improvement. If you like, I will send some of the observations to you for they are not suitable for posting.

I may be upset, but I do not lack respect for the challenge of you or your work BobG. cwm10.gif HornEd not read?

This message has been edited by HornEd on 06-19-2001 at 07:42 AM

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Since BobG is busy putting some last minute touches on training we have this afternoon, let me step in. I know he had no intention of adding fuel to your fire HornEd. We value yours and everyone else's opinion as true Klipsch fans...we know you'll tell us when things are right AND will let us know when things are not ideal. BobG made the statement that he DOUBTED you saw the RF-7's when you were in, but there is still the possibility you did. We know here that the RS-7's, the RC-7's and the RF-5's were produced ahead of the RF-7's, but some could have gotten out earlier than we thought, especially to a major account like the good guys!

What we try to emphasize when we hear of a conflict between one of our customers and one of our dealers is that the customer make the proper people aware of the problem at the dealer level. You are the customer, the one with the "vote" (with your buying power). If someone is not letting you legitimately "cast that vote" YOU need to make sure you find the person high enough up that wants to help with that problem. As a former CEO, I'm sure you would much rather hear yourself, if it had to get that high up, straight from the customer's mouth what their dissatisfaction was. You would want to know if one of your customers is unhappy and why they are unhappy. That is the only way to solve the problem...to know you have one to solve. And if it was not getting solved by your employees you have given the duty to handle such problems, you know you have another problem. In your case, if the new store manager would not satisfy you, I would ask to speak to the district manager, then the regional manager and on up until satisfaction is realized. I truly feel though, that the good guys! is the type of organization that will listen to you as a customer HornEd. You will not need to go to the top...just a little higher than you have gone so far. You, as the local customer, hold much more weight than we who are thousands of miles away....

Bob or I would be happy to look at your obversations HornEd if you would like to e-mail us. We care about our customers and our dealers both, because without a positive relationship between the two, no one wins.

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PhilH, thanks for the timely and well received reply to which I am in accord. BobG's post did indeed touch a nerve... in that a fair amount of my business income came from decades of experience in evaluating customer relations environments for corporate clients across the country. Granted, that did not include Klipsch, but it did include a great many household names in a wide variety of product lines... including electronics.

Although retired, I would not disclose potentially damaging information about any retailer without quite compelling proof... and certainly not on a whim or some imagined personal slight. I am quite careful about establishing the fact situation before I make a public comment... and IMHO, BobG's inferred that perhaps the speakers were not even there! This board is a cut above many others in many ways... and the more honest and candid it remains... the more likely it will retain and grow in service and influence to Klipsch and its consumers. While I may be guilty of a flip comment here and an ignorant blunder there, I would not knowingly compromise the image of Klipsch or any retailer without strong cause. The length of my posts is often caused by my concern not to be misinterpreted as to content or the intent that spurred it.

I dropped in at the Good Guys store yesterday for a hundred meters of Cat 5 cable (which they no longer carry) and received an assurance that (as a response to my earlier concerns expressed to management) the advance demo RF-7's and RC-7 that they had received will now be set up in their better sound room... and another confirmation of the existence of internal disagreement over the early display of the new Klipsch products.

For what ever it's worth, PhilH, when my early efforts to encourage was dismissed out of hand... with the comment that I had probably "shot my wad" buying so much equipment so that my opinion was not as important in their quest for new sales. Ah, yes, the dread "What have you done for me lately" syndrome. Clearly, the new manager doesn't know me very well. It was only then that I made this post... and informed the local store that I had... so there would be no mistake as to the author if the controversy continued to spiral. Good Guys (or any other retailer) exists because they are able to maintain sufficient customer confidence to be able to pay their creditors and give a return to their investors. That is not easy to do... witness pioneer retailers Woolworth or Montgomery Ward.

The point to Good Guys is that Klipsch engineered products are sufficiently unique to attract a market segment that has more word-of-mouth potential to influence new customers in addition to sales generated by their own consumer upgrade path... and the ongoing product development by Klipsch to foster it.

Oh, and PhilH, thanks for the comment regarding Father's Day... it looks like my son will be returning home with a new Klipsch attitude... and a fair sample of my Klipsch "warehouse" as BobG referred to it in another good natured post.

Trying to earn a living as a salesman or manager in the competitive maelstrom of a high volume sales environment is no picnic. Usually, any time-eating "customer comforts" (e.g., in-depth comparisons, rig set up advice or "how ya doin'?") must be reduced to a minimum in the crunch of bottom line reality. That's not what we as consumers want to hear... but it is a fact in building effective distribution chains that affect the price/performance potential of any mass produced product line.

Klipsch spends money maintaining this FORUM so that we consumers can benefit from making each other aware and, yes, doing some effective consumer handholding for each other (and, don't forget the "lurkers"). It is a bonus when a "K-minion" responds to a post and you fellows do it with style, rumor squelching accurate information and just enough attitude to keep it interesting. Fortunately, you are not perfect IMHO, and so, some of us retired folks have something worthwhile to do. cwm38.gif Love that Klipsch sound! HornEd

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