Frzninvt Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 I would as suggested taken the speaker in its current condition, I would have told the seller that I was OK with the damage and that I would get it repaired myself. If he back peddled from that than he is surely a liar and a cheat. It is an awful thing on eBay lately with all the behind the scenes deals, people ending auction in the final minutes becuase they are not getting what they want for the items, etc. The vertical Cornwalls just got pulled with a "decided not to sell" excuse which should have read "i got a better offer from someone" instead. Anyone could have come across the Academy by using the search completed items, if it was a forum member what you did was dispicable and low. If I found out that a forum member had done that to me I would drive to their house and smash that speaker over their had and then call the cops on myself. Can't let the guy have a little bit of a break - that is disgusting. Shame you got your money sent back to you already, I would have demanding the item that I was promised and paid for regardless of the tear in the woofer. The woofer is still available new from Klipsch parts for less the $100, there is no excuse that I would believe. Negative feedback is certainly in order as well as a formal complaint to eBay whether is makes a difference or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveks Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 A would not suggest leaving negative feedback. Then he will leave you the same and two negatives don't help either of you. I see your point and why you would be frusterated; however, you DID get you cash back and you already purchased a replacement for the academy. Let it go and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny TN Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 negetive feedback is a must in this situation !!! be smart and do it on the last day you can..and hope he does not do the same or runs out of the 30 day window to leave feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 ---------------- On 2/22/2004 12:01:08 AM Freak On A Leash wrote: Heretic, How do you propose I MAKE him give me the speaker? I understand exactly where you're coming from with this, but I'm not sure what I can actually do. If I say I want the speaker even if it's damaged, and he makes up another excuse, I'm still getting scammed. Is he a piss poor Ebay'er? Yes, probably is considering that it's this sort of crap that angers people because he failed to do his part and properly research his item before hand. I also think he's a COP.....which is sort of funny. It would be funny to show up on his doorstep and demand my ACADEMY. I could notify Ebay, but could they really force him to turn the speaker over? Not sure, don't have enough experience at dealing with Ebay to know. ---------------- You tell him you intend to prosecute for fraud if he does not deliver the unit in one of the two conditions he described, and for the price you agreed. You made a payment for a speaker, not a refund. Make him squirm a little, if nothing else. People ought not be able do do this kind of crap without some repercussions. ANd I agree with Frzn, you neg him on the feedback at the VERY least. You had a deal, and he reneged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak On A Leash Posted February 22, 2004 Author Share Posted February 22, 2004 I have a civil email into him that asks if he still wants to sell the speaker I would still take it off of his hands and fix it myself. We'll see what sort of response he has and then I'll decide what level to take it to from there. Yes, he refunded my money already, but I still won the Ebay auction but I'm not sure what sort of action I can take since he refunded my money other than file a complaint with Ebay and leave him negative feedback. Do I still have grounds to prosecute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know. Maybe someone here is. Sorry I can't be more helpful there. Still, if you rattle him, you may end up with your Academy, and at the very least you may scare him into proper behavior for the future. You'll have done your part, that way, to increase the good and decrease the bad in the world. Mostly I'm just angry on your behalf and would like to see you and him both get what you've rightfully got coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Disregard...........Good luck which ever way you decide to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 This truly sucks. I agree that leaving neg. feedback or complaining to ebay is about the only option. That does invite seller to do the same, however. There is really nothing to "prosecute" as you have your money back. If anything it is a breach of contract situation and not worth the trouble. Even if the guy took off with your money there would likely not be anything you could do about it. You would have a really hard time having any law enforcement agency follow up on it, much less the applicable DA/SA. If it is a common pattern or practice of the seller and results in big $$ fraud that is a diff. situation. As you can see, your situation is an example of a BIG ebay weakness. Most of us frequent ebayers learn to take the good with the bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartdude Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Maybe you outta ask him to email you a pic of the damage! If it isnt damaged, he would have to damage it in order to send you a pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Devil Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Do I still have grounds to prosecute? OMG! First a little background on myself, so you know where I am coming from. I graduated from Harvard Law 8 years ago, and I have had my own practice here in Wisconsin for the past 6 years. I do both civil and criminal law. Okay...let's get to this issue. What do you presume are the grounds you have for a case? I see nothing personally. So you purchased an item on Ebay, never received it, but your money was refunded in full to you. At this point, the seller has no obligation to sell this item to you. You have paid for nothing! PERIOD! If you take a close look at Ebay's policies you will see that all of the forms that are there for you to fill out in cases of fraud are for items that you 1) paid for and never received, or 2) paid for, received the item, but the item was misrepresented. Here is the policy...just FYI. Under the Seller Non-performance policy, the following practices are not permitted: 1. Not delivering an item for which payment was accepted 2. Significantly misrepresenting an item by not meeting the terms and item descriptions that are outlined in the listing Even if the seller is doing something "under the table" as you say, which astounds me how many people automatically think this is a shady deal, you have NO CONTROL OVER THAT! Like I said, the seller has refunded the money to you, and any obligation to you ended at that point by you accepting the refund. And just a personal note on my part....how do you know that this wasn't an honest mistake anyway? Maybe it got poked/scratched while moving, or maybe a child damaged it while daddy wasn't looking. Who knows? Last time I looked I lived in the United States were individuals were innocent until proven guilty. It seems the judges in this room have just labeled this guy guilty, but whatever. Again...just my $.02. So unfortunately you have no case for the courts. You can leave negative feedback to the seller, but what's the point? Sure, the seller will have that scar on his Ebay feedback, but do you really think that is going to hinder his buying/selling on Ebay? Probably not. Plus, the seller will probably just send you negative feedback back, and then YOU have negative feedback on your rating. The choice, however, is yours. There's really no right answer to that one. Like I said in an earlier post, I would probably just chalk this one up to an Ebay learning experience, and let it go. Pressuring this guy is going to do no good because if this guy is at all smart, he knows that he has no obligation to you and the threatening emails will be pointless. Hope this helps, and if you would like....email me and I can answer any legal questions you have. And I won't even charge you! lol Don't hear that very often from a lawyer!!! Take care! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak On A Leash Posted February 22, 2004 Author Share Posted February 22, 2004 Thanks Taz for that detailed explanation. I sort of figured that the most I could do was complain Ebay and write a negative note on his feedback. I don't really believe on being a prick about it since it's not usually my style. I believe more in tact to convey my messages, it has worked pretty well for me this long. On top of that, I being a buyer with 0 statements good or bad just doesn't add up to me to have my first one be negative. The guy has been pretty civil for the most part and I sort of had a feeling that this was going to happen in the long run. If the speaker is truely damaged, maybe he'll decide to part with it and let me do the repairs. Or, if he decides to make up another story or not respond to me, I'll know the truth anyway. I am chalking this one up to learning a lesson in general because I don't see how me writing a negative review of him is going to benifit me in the long run. Like I said, I'll just see how he replies to me and I'll give it some more thought about complaining to Ebay and writing a negative review of him. But from what I've seen and heard, complaining to Ebay does absolutely nothing. But there are always exceptions. FREAK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Devil Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 You sound like a reasonable man Freak, and I admire that. I would do business with you anytime! ~ Taz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 FWIW, I think that seller violated both provisions of the non-performance policy. Taz, I agree with you that Freak has essentially no recourse, but this does not mean that seller is not in breach. Perhaps it would be different if the ebay policy was one that would have excused sellers conduct in this particular circumstance(assuming it's a policy that both ebay users consented to prior to entering contract), but it does not. I see this as an offer, an acceptance and a breach. Refunding consideration is not a defense for breach of contract. Recourse, however, is another question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Devil Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Kev....I do agree, and do see your point. However, per Ebay policy it is not permitted to knowningly misrepresent an item. That is exactly what the seller is trying not to do. In his auction description of the item, he is stating the item is in perfect working order. However, after reviewing the item closer he noticed a defect. If he were to sell the product after knowing the defect, then there would be recourse against him because he is misrepresenting the item. The seller, in my opinion, did the right thing by refunding the buyer's money after noticing a defect. Now...if it's a shady deal, then ethically it is wrong, but because of Ebay's policies the seller has done his part. It would be nice to see Ebay impliment something to prevent this type of situation, because it does happen quite often unfortunately, but I see it as almost impossible legally because of the red tape. ~ Taz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Taz, thanks for the explanation. I understand that since the money has been refunded, there is no real harm done. It makes sense. You mentioned wondering why so many were so quick to judge the seller. Did the seller act within the bounds of the law? Apparently so. Is he within eBay policies? By your explanation it would seem so, but I suppose eBay would be the arbiter of that. Did the seller do the right thing? Absolutely not. The choice to take the merchandise as-is or to take a refund ought to have belonged to Freak. The seller didn't give him that choice, he just reneged on the sale and sent the money back. That sounds more like someone who got a better offer than it sounds like someone who is concerned about Freak getting what he paid for. I can't speak for anyone else on the rush-to-judgment bit, but in my case it's simple -- it just plain smells fishy. I only hope that Freak gets an outcome he's happy with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschfoot Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 The item was advertised as in "perfect WORKING order." A tear does not affect the sound unless it is major. Dude, you was lied to. You paid his price. You should refuse the refund. Then file a complaint on eBay and file for resolution. This is fraud. Auction purchases are contractual and not refundable or breakable by the seller unless the buyer agrees. The item can only be retracted from auction before it is bought. Fight it. It is worth it. $225.00?! I would be really upset. This seller made a big mistake and he is unwilling to admit it. His integrity is worth about $500, the difference between what he sold it for and what he could possibly get. Call him. You can get his info through eBay. If you don't want it, I am sure someone here would give you $400+ for it here on the forum even if it is imperfect. I may be wrong, but I doubt it. This stuff has to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak On A Leash Posted February 22, 2004 Author Share Posted February 22, 2004 I realize that I was lied to. The fact is, I put out an email this afternoon to him and like the night in which he didn't reply to me and offered a weird excuse, this is much the same. I believe that he is trying to think of a good way to say he doesn't want to sell the speaker because he got a better deal without saying so much. I know I got screwed, and I know I got my money back without any hassles. I also know that I purchased a KLF-C7 and while it's not as good of a price, I am going to be happier than having the RC-3II. The thing that I noticed about the Academy vs. the C7 is that the Academy's horn looks tiny compaired to the C7's. Am I going to be happier? Not sure. I suppose not considering that I payed about 3X as much. The only answer that he could give me now with the email I sent to not come out a liar would be "Yes, you can have the speaker". Any other way and he proves himself to be a liar. It's hard to make someone admit that they are lying, but I don't see how he could answer my email without saying that I can have it to prove that it is indeed true that the speaker is damaged other than to produce a picture of the tear. What does this gain me? I suppose that I prove that he's a liar and get a bit of satisfaction and possibly send the email records off to them for their review. That way it's in their ballcourt. I do find it interesting how he hasn't replied to me today. I assume that he's scratching his brain on how to lie to me without coming off as a selfish renegging prick. I do know he asked me to write a positive review of him and he would do the same for me....... Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 I agree. He is bound to give you what he has. Your damages in this breach are FMV of Academy - What you Paid. A more equitable solution may be (if the seller is, indeed, honest about the mistake) FMV of Academy - What you Paid - Cost of Academy Repair. Bottom line - there was a meeting of the minds. He knew what he sold you (even if he was wrong) and you know what you bought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveks Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Are people still talking about this deal. Though it would have died off by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Yeah, talking about it here is probably what started the whole mess. Lesson learned. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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