Jabez Scratch Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Re: Vancouver's Todd Bertuzzi's sucker punch on Colorado's Steve Moore, I think that the punishment (suspension for both the regular and playoff seasons + $250,000 club fine) is fair and justifiable. Bertuzzi brutally sucker punched Moore, fell on him (perhaps unintentionally), and, in doing so, fractured Moore's neck. Having said that, I think that the NHL erred in failing to punish Moore for the cheap body check to Marcus Naslund a few weeks ago. Had the NHL shown the leadership and courage to punish Moore quickly, the Vancouver Canucks would not have felt the need to exact some payback on Moore. However, this simply does not justify Bertuzzi's actions, which may lead to criminal charges as well. The NHL needs to purge this macho attitude that millionaire men know how to handle their own affairs and the peon fans (you know, the cattle that herds through the gates into the games) just don't and could never understand the pressures of professional sport. Tie Domi of the Toronto Maple Leafs (who I do like and respect) and other players claim that, unless you are a player, you cannot understand the pressures and passions that exert their forces on you in a game. Gimme a break -- so, in other words, the commoners could not possibly stretch their limited mental capacities to imagine what the big stars have to put with. Our menial jobs don't prepare us to understand the rigours that burden the pro athlete. Someone re-send professional athletes the memo that went out in the mid-1990s -- you know, the one that announced that the intrigue of pro sports has worn off like the sheen off the hood of an old car. Drug abuse, murder, rape, illegal gambling -- sorry, Mr. Pro Athlete, but your mask was ripped off a long time ago and we saw that you are all human beings too. In fairness, however, pro sports still churns out heroes that you want your children to look up to. God help the NHL, because it is in need of major rehabilitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 As a local Av's fan, I'll throw my 0.02 in here. I think the punishment that the NHL levied was entirely too small. This event should have been at least a 2yr suspension, possibly expulsion from the league. I didn't see the original hit that Moore put on Naslund, but in the replays, they were both going for the puck and there was a hard collision. Should there have been a suspension? Questionable. OTOH, Bertuzzi was circling Moore for 15-20 seconds, grabbed his jersey, dropped his stick, and then did the roundhouse sucker punch to Moore. That was enough, but Bertuzzi then PURPOSELY rode Moore into the ice and got a couple more small punches in on the way down. This was after Moore was in at least one fight earlier in the game (he won) and scored a goal. The Canucks had put a bounty on Moore, and this was a cheap, cowardly way to exact "revenge" for the Naslund hit. If you want to get revenge, give a guy a chance to defend himself, not a sucker punch from behind. Moore was extremely lucky that he wasn't paralized in this attack. We don't know if Moore will ever play again, so this hit could literally end his hockey career. There should be serious criminal charges filed in this case, ala the McSorley-Brashear case in 2000, also in Vancover. This was even worse, and if Moore can't return, then I could see a civil lawsuit also; lost wages, pain/suffering, etc. I am not one to sue just for profit, but this deals with someone's career. Ok, rant off. I also agree that pro athletes need a wakeup call on things. Their attitudes are way out of control. Now continue with your regularly scheduled program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Moores hit was reviewed by the same people that reviewed Bertuzzi's mauling. Moores hit was deemed a non-offense, meaning clean. The problem the NHL is having is the premeditation of the incident. also,. also Naslund also reviewed the hit and had stated for the record it was clean. any hockey player knows Damn well crossing center ice with the eyes on the puck invites a hard noggen knocking hit. Being a boston fan I recall the same Vancouver team was screaming bloody murder a few years back with a an incident with a less severe injury. Moore has a broken neck and some think that is justified as a result of a deemed CLEAN hit. Moores open ice hit was not premeditated it was in play. Bertuzzis actions premeditated and very intentional. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 well, i don't watch hockey, but i would if they would only... have vicious tigers and lions tied on loose chains prepared to devour any player that got too close...and,uh,and spinning blades that would pop up out of the ice at random times/locations...and,and..the penalty booth was full of angry red ants..and,uh,a BIG pit that would open up with spikes on the floor of it,and..the goalie had a flame thrower to keep people from being able to score... YEAH!! THAT'S the kind of hockey I WANT to see. J/K avman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Scratch Posted March 11, 2004 Author Share Posted March 11, 2004 ---------------- On 3/11/2004 4:13:15 PM Bruinsrme wrote: Moores hit was reviewed by the same people that reviewed Bertuzzi's mauling. Moores hit was deemed a non-offense, meaning clean. The problem the NHL is having is the premeditation of the incident. also,. also Naslund also reviewed the hit and had stated for the record it was clean. any hockey player knows Damn well crossing center ice with the eyes on the puck invites a hard noggen knocking hit. Being a boston fan I recall the same Vancouver team was screaming bloody murder a few years back with a an incident with a less severe injury. Moore has a broken neck and some think that is justified as a result of a deemed CLEAN hit. Moores open ice hit was not premeditated it was in play. Bertuzzis actions premeditated and very intentional. Scott ---------------- Fair enough, but a lot of people other than Marcus Naslund and the NHL think that Moore's hit on Naslund was a cheap shot. But that doesn't matter. Taking the discussion in that direction takes us away from the vital point: nothing justifies what Bertuzzi did. To put it in even sharper focus, let's say that we found out that Moore degraded Bertuzzi's mother or uttered some kind of ethnic/racial slur to Bertuzzi (yeah, yeah, I know he's some white Euro-Canadian guy) right before the sucker punch, even then Bertuzzi would not be justified in acting in that manner. Our whole civil society is based on not retaliating with violence in the face of some affront to us. You should stand up for yourself, but not through violence -- even if you are met with violence (unless you acting in self-defence or the defence of another party). I just don't want to hear anymore talk about how I can't possibly judge Todd Bertuzzi because I've never played a game in the NHL. When I watch "Blakc Hawk Down," can I realistically expect to know how tense and frightening it was as a ranger trapped in the middle of Mogadishu being fired at from every angle? Yes, I can. I've never been in that exact situation, but fear, tension, pain are all experiences common to human beings. It is one of the few things that we all share. It's the gift (curse?) of imagination that humans have, and no other animals have (at least nowhere to the degree which we have). If we couldn't imagine the tension of an NHL hockey player in a game or a solider in the heat of battle, we as a species would never have left the side of the waterhole, discovered fire, and put the spaceship up in orbit around the Earth a la Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey (the best science fiction movie ever made, thank you). In short, Todd Bertuzzi bad (at least, in that game), 2001: A Space Odyssey good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shmoe Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 NIcely put Jabez.. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 My $0.02 -- US or Canadian, take your pick -- the fine was appropriate, but the suspension was not. If I had my druthers, Bertuzzi can return to the ice when Moore can return to the ice. I think it ought to be that if you take a cheap shot that ends another guy's career, you just ended yours as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 ---------------- On 3/11/2004 5:55:02 PM heretic wrote: Bertuzzi can return to the ice when Moore can return to the ice. I think it ought to be that if you take a cheap shot that ends another guy's career, you just ended yours as well. ---------------- I agree!!! I remember, I was cutting through center ice receiving a pass which was a little behind me, well thats about it. My team mates were up in arms, which I greatly appreciate, but when we looked at the tapes it could not have gotten any cleaner. the mere fact it happened sure there was a little I will get you next game. But in the locker room there was always a sense of agreement once it was taken care of it was done, point made don't let it happen again. And Scott keep your head up... such the case of this. first period fight, done! Regardless as the NHL tries to make inroads with primetime it is things like this that sets them back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Heretic- Well said! That pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter. Jabez- I agree with your hockey insight, but can't agree with your Blackhawk Down insight. Until people are shooting at you, and your life hangs in the balance, there is no way you can know what it is like. Hockey and war are two different things. No, I've never been in combat, but others I served with were and they aren't the same afterwards. "Fear, tension, and pain" take on a whole new level on the battlefield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackBurner Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 That folks is the game of hockey !! There has been " way " worse hits and blood battles over the years this was nothing to write about. Hell i've done " way " worse than todds getting blamed for . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 ---------------- On 3/11/2004 6:40:24 PM BackBurner wrote: That folks is the game of hockey !! There has been " way " worse hits and blood battles over the years this was nothing to write about. Hell i've done " way " worse than todds getting blamed for . ---------------- Oh, man. I generally enjoy your posts, but this is is just wrong on so many levels. - Just because the guys were wearing skates when the mugging occurred doesn't mean it wasn't a mugging. Hitting a puck into a net with a stick is hockey. Punching a guy and riding him to the ground is assault. - By your reasoning re: worse things happening in the past, it was okay for Saddam to gas the Kurds, since Hitler's genocide was so much worse. - You've done worse than sucker punch a guy and break his neck? And you're here to post? Give me your lawyer's number -- I want him on my side if I ever land in deep doo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackBurner Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Sorry man but thats just my take on it . I play'ed hockey to the junior AAA level , i was the enforcer on our team. I've been in more fights in one weekend than most guys have in there entire lives. Yes i've done worse , i broke the jaw of our opposing teams coach one night , after a game. I cleaned the ice with his kid ( broke his nose and fractured his cheek bone )that night and he thought at 18 i was'nt tough enough to take the old man on, well he spent 8 weeks eating out of a straw for that mistake. Don't lecture me on the world of hockey player's , i've been there .I lived on a rink for 15 years. This kind of stuff goes on every night , across canada and the usa. Guys get boarded from behind and end up in a lot worse condition than this kid is in. The " drug " problem in junior hockey is unreal , you just don't hear about it . These guys are trying for the big paycheck , the " show " . Steroids , cocaine , speed , ive taken it all and watched fellow teamates flush there lives down the drain over addictions. Hell grant furr of the edmonton oilers was so blasted on cocaine he can hardly remember winning those cups . I could tell you stories that would curl your god dam toe nails !!!! Broken neck my *** !! I've had a fracture on C4 & C5 from being boarded 10 times harder than this kid got hit. They are saying he's got a " small " chip out of a vert " big difference from breaking your neck " which by the way kills you . You can't " BREAK " you neck and live to tell about it. You can fracture verts in the C or L but you can't " BREAK " your neck . You guy's just sit back on your couch and get entertained by the saturday night games , but have " no " clue what the life of a player is all about. Todd screwed up and got caught , for that he's out $500,000.00 in pay plus the team is down 250k . How is this any worse than marty wacking that big *** brashier in the head with his stick ? Violence comes with emotion in this game. The " POINT " of my first post was that this happens everynight but since this game was on tv and it's the NHL well hey now it's a news story. Todd was wrong in what he did, I'll agree with you guys on that. where i take exception is with the news exposure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOADEDTUNES Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Your right Backburner , and guys like me pay to watch guys like you play. It's called entertainment , last year i watched a witchata thunder game ( think there from kansas )that was little more then a blood bath , Don't know why they even bother'ed bring a puck to the game. Hockey is a rough and dangerous game , alot of people don't realize that. But Todd was still wrong in what he did . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 As usual. Millions of people forming an opinion about a subject they know absolutely nothing about because the media needs to air more Viagra commercials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFinco Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 ...and then you go to the box alone for 2 min. and you feel shame.....then..you get free. ...if anybody throws me against the boards, I'm gonna piss all over myself...... sorry...I couldn't help but make a "slapshot" refrence here............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 There is a code of conduct in hockey, and Moore followed it earlier in the game. He dropped his gloves and won a clean fight. The Canucks coach wanted Moore's head on a platter, and Bertuzzi obliged. I think a fair concept is allowing Bertuzzi to play next year with no suspension, and to kick 20% of his paycheck over to Moore for the rest of his career. The deliberate acts to injure players need to be curtailed, and the pocketbook is the most certain way to do such. Moore will not be able to find a doctor who will clear him to play competitive pro hockey again. It's all over for him. Rather than diminish Bertuzzi's ability to earn a living, let his significant skills (and paycheck) compensate Moore for a deliberate act. The broken vertabrae were not a desired end to the sucker punch, but the act and the horseback ride to the ice with head slammed showed serious intent to injure. And yes, end boards have lowered my IQ at least fifteen points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I stopped watching hockey years ago. There are too many multimillionaire punks on skates. I will likely never again be a fan simply because I enjoy hockey and cannot be bothered watching thuggery. If and when the game outlaws this kind of BS. I may start watching it but I doubt that will ever come to pass because goon gangs are more saleable than hockey teams. Sadly this thugee mentality has permeated the game all the way down to the kid's teams to the extent that parents have been known to jump onto the ice and assault referees and linesmen because the officials have made what the parents consider bad calls. Hockey ?? ..... Nothing more than WWF on skates. If the nhl were to disband tomorrow it would be too soon for me. I hope that stupid slob is not only barred from the game permanently but subjected to arrest and trial and imprisonment as he so richly deserves....As any of us not having the so-called excuse of being a "Professional" would rightly face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 I love hockey and I always will. It has always been a game of a very violent nature. Those who do not care for violence are free to change the channel. I think that the game should be policed from within. Due to the nature of the famous, extreme rivalry between the AV's and the Wings (I'm from Detroit), far be it from me to defend an Av's player. But, what happened to Moore the other day fills me with sorrow and deep respect for every hockey player that sets a skate the ice. Despite any missed calls in the past on Moore by the officials (shame on them), that should have no bearing on what Bertuzzi chose to do to Moore the other day. I'd like to see Bertuzzi kept off the ice until Moore is able to return. Should Moore's career end due to the injuries he sustained, then Bertuzzi's career should end, too. It's as simple as that. -JHMO -Picky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 I live and breath hockey. I have played many years and still today. Not at any significant level. The first problem most people have with hockey is the lack of appreciation of what it takes to play. Most of the people that I have met that say hockey this hoceky that have no freaking clue how difficult it is to stay on your skates with some goon hanging, hooking, holding. hitting, slashing you as you try to get or hold onto the puck. Hockey is an agreesive sport. IMO far less violent than football. Fighting has always been part of the game and should stay. How many time have you seen players like Madono, sakic, ST Louis, shannie drop the gloves. rarely if never. Every team needs the enforcer, still no problem with that either. In the corners, every true hockey player know that it is hell there. In front of the net, one jsut hopes the cross checking stays somewhere between the belt line and shoulders. Of course the unexpected whack from the goalie could happen at anytime. Still with all that the blatent attack by Bertuzzi was unnecessary and deserved punishment. More crap happens behind the play and so on but Bertuzzi's intention was purposeful and intentional completely out of the play at hand. For those never punched with a hockey glove, well that in itself is a whole different experience. On the other hand if one appreciates the game in all aspects, they understand the the Sakics, St Louis', fosbergs Madano's Guerins are simply amazing. There was a time and place for getting Moore and that was the first period. If this happened in the Minor leagues it would have never been publicized. It happened in the pros "the show" therefor it was covered. The possibility Bertuzzi wil not skate the next season, well it will give him time to think. If he does skate the NHL will only condone these types of actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 I stand my opinion stated earlier Hockey at its best is/was a joy ( for me ) to behold. The skill displayed in that long ago Canada/Russia series kept me glued to the screen. The goon game that is the norm today is a shadow of what can be. I'd rather go downtown and watch the trucks rust! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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