KCM Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 I've been having a bit of a struggle taming the aggressive midrange from my '72 Cornwall's. I've tried a EL34 PP triode amp, a Dodd Audio 5687 PP triode amp (this one sounds soooo good with my La Scala's) and, surprisingly, the best match to date was with an old Hafler XL-280 SS amp that has been modified quite a bit. It really tamed the midrange blare and was quite nice to listen to, but ultimately lacked that certain "something" that, it seems, only tubes bring out in the music. I stumbled onto a pair of Bottlehead Paramours 2A3 SET's and Foreplay preamp on ebay a few weeks back and snagged them. I'm having a hum problem thru the Paramours that needs to be addressed but, despite that, they sound wonderful with the Cornwall's. I'm not too handy with wordy descriptions of sound, but they have added a whole new dimension to the listening experience. Really, really nice ! Very "open" sounding, very fast, nice tone, bass is deeper and tighter than expected, highs are very natural. To be continued........... -Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 You could have saved yourself alot of money and headaches by just getting an H/K 430 for those Cornwalls...but...do what ya gotta do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 "Midrange blare" is caused by networks -- not good amplifiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 KCM, Welcome to the wonderful world of SET amplification. As someone who currently owns Push Pull amps, Hybrid Tube Amps, Solid State I can honestly say that I enjoy my SET amps more than the any of the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Midrange blare is not caused by networks that are working properly, but can OFTEN be caused by upstream components..no matter HOW GOOD they are SUPPOSED TO BE with other speakers! Yes, Dean-o...including so-called "good" amps! Too many folks on this forum keep forgetting ONE thing...you match your upstream components to your speakers, NOT the other way around! Another thing too many forget is that accurately reproducing speakers don't NEED upgrades...it is the LISTENER, who refuses to accept accuracy because he/she has other notions of what accuracy is SUPPOSED to be, who requires so-called UPGRADES in the speakers! Now, to replace faulty crossovers with properly working ones is ONE thing, but to claim an UPGRADE to something that already does its job ACCURATELY is pure folly! Just a little bit of something to think about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 I strongly disagree. With all due respect -- you're out of your realm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 ---------------- On 3/22/2004 5:57:26 PM DeanG wrote: I strongly disagree. With all due respect -- your out of your realm. ---------------- Whoa there! You can't say "you're out of your realm" and have it come off respectfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Out of my realm? Oh, please excuse me, your exalted one on ye olde high horse who thought Heritage were beneath himself just how long ago???? And who now claims upgrades are available so that everybody can hear things the way his majesty thinks they out to be heard??? Well...maybe I am out of YOUR realm, but I am totally within MY realm, your majesty! And I kinda like it here in MY realm...the realm of REALITY! Doth the Emperor wear NEW clothes, yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 I'm having a rough day, and since I've spent the last two years burying myself in solder, passive parts, their implemention, and enough reading material to make most here vomit -- I just didn't need to hear that right now. Like most folk -- I don't like being patronized. It wasn't meant as offense Andy. I sure wouldn't presume to tell you the right way to build a LaScala. BTW -- I bought NEW Klipschorns for a reason. I didn't feel like going into tweaker's hell for a year to make them sound right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 You know Andy, you have no idea what I do, so from that standpoint alone, you're not qualified to make any statements regarding my work. Also, (and I've been very open about this) -- I don't screw with the circuits. What I do is put in some nice parts that clean things up a bit (take off some harshness in the midrange and reduce high frequency ringing). Quality parts make a difference regardless of where they're used, whether it be in amps, preamps, cd players, and yes -- even speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 IME midrange blare is caused by a too directive mid horn making the ratio of direct to reflected sound on axis too high. That's a reason. There are evidently others as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRB Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Hey guys, I certainly don't want to fan any flames here but I do have a question. I have read a lot of threads here about matching upstream components with your speakers. I am currently trying to buy a set of Cornwalls and I have a Pioneer Elite ss 110w per channel amp that I will use to drive these speakers on the "b" side in my game room. Am I just kidding myself to think that I will be satisfied with this combination? I currently use this amp with my KSP-400's, but they are as you know, not Cornwalls. It appears most folks here on the forum feel strongly about tube amps with heritage speakers. Although I have heard several tube setups, I have never owned one and would not have much idea where to start. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Yeah. I was thinking along the lines that an amp that can handle reactive loads and not shift its frequency response with impedance would sound flatter, and not peaky -- which is kind of what I thought about the Cornwalls when I had them. I was thinking the Paramour might be dropping it's output a bit at one of the "peaky" spots. Impedance doesn't always climb with frequency. What put me in this direction was his comment that it got better with the SS Hafler -- which would make sense if what I'm saying is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 GRB -- you might try that amp first before drawing any hard conclusions. You might like the way it sounds, and save yourself some money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRB Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Thanks, Dean. My other choice would be to move my '76 Pioneer SA-9500 II from the family room to push the Cornwalls. Any appreciable difference in an older ss and the newer one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Dean...a good pair of used ones with Bob Crites' REPLACEMENT(not UPGRADE) AA-type networks would have blown you away, too...just as they have done to so many folks for so many years. The problems in K-horns BEGAN when they went AWAY from the AA network. The new networks are the closest the K-horn has sounded to the old AA networks since they went away from those networks, and MAY sound just a tiny bit better than the old AA!(depending on whether room dynamics ALLOW it to sound better or not!) But the new network change cost a mint compared to what the old AA used to cost! PWK could have used anything he wanted to use in the K-horns, or any of his other speakers for that matter...in the crossover networks...he saved enough money in other aspects of the speakers' construction and components that he could have splurged on the networks, but he didn't...ever wonder why? Because, simply, he didnt HAVE to splurge. In order for his speakers to be as accurate as possible he found he did not NEED to splurge on crossover components for any other reason than to provide the best possible LONGETIVITY...which was one of his main goals for all of his speaker designs. Ask Bob Crites the main difference between his crossovers and those of PWK...the main difference is that Bob's are NEW...made as REPLACEMENTS for tired old ones, NOT made as UPGRADES to the original design! Accuracy is STILL accuracy! We all have preconceived opinions to how reproduction of music should sound. In other words, we have our own notions of what accuracy is. But those are PERSONAL to each and every one of us...and quite often they are WRONG...for a variety of reasons. First of all, none of us hears exactly the same way as the next of us does, our ears are different, but all work on the same principles using the same parts, although the parts may be slightly shaped and/or sized differently...which alters our perceptions of what we term as accuracy. Another aspect is just how often we have heard the music live...I am not talking about amplified through a set of speakers on a stage, I am talking about acoustically LIVE...up close and personal! There are many who visit this forum talking of accuracy and they are actually talking about how accurately the speakers reproduce a recording of a concert they heard but did not actually go to...IOW they heard it one place through one kind of amplification, but the recording they have was made in another place using another kind of amplification...or was mixed down one way or another that caused changes to what they heard in person...and they try to align this recording with their memories of hearing it live, and it just doesn't jive well...so they immediately blame something besides their own hearing or the recording, or the venue of the recording, or whatever...they blame the speakers. "Gotta tweak em now...gotta make that recording sound like my memory of that band, even though I never was AT that particular concert!" See what I mean? Before I was a Klipsch man, I was JBL man. Thank God I was never into Bose, or I would still be lost out there on "planet X" somewhere. How did I become a Klipsch man? I took my new Heresys home and compared em to my old JBL's and there WAS NO comparison. The Klipsch had it hands down! What did I use for reference to make this decision? I used reel-to-reel tapes I had made of friends playing music overseas...acoustically, up close and personal. With the Heresys, I could close my eyes and see them right in front of me, smiling, laughing, swilling a beer, giving each other a hard time for miscueing or being off-key, etc., between takes of the "509th blues sessions!" Yes, just simple recordings of buddies in a barracks room...playing a lap dulcimer, a couple of guitars, one banjo, a harmonica, spoons, and drumming on a mostly-filled-with-clothes footlocker. If the speakers could take me back to that barracks, they were accurate! I didn't need sub-bass performance woofers for Tchaikovsky's cannonfire from 1812...I didn't need the sounds of a thousand violins...all I needed was to be transported back to that room on that particular nite...but I needed ACCURACY to get there! The Heresys gave me that! So did Cornwalls. So did LaScalas. So did Klipschorns. Those guys in the barracks never knew they were being recorded...that is why hearing them again like they were right there was so much fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckears Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Didn't this forum just reopen today, after having been shut down for the weekend due to this type of beyatchy sniping? What is with this personal stuff? At least have the courtesy to state your opinion (with civility, something the post-Limbaugh world is having difficulty with), without directly shooting down individuals... ...that is, unless you guys want to see the whole Forum shut down... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCM Posted March 22, 2004 Author Share Posted March 22, 2004 "You could have saved yourself alot of money and headaches by just getting an H/K 430 for those Cornwalls...but...do what ya gotta do!" I actually had one of those for a short while about a year ago. It didn't distinguish itself as anything special compared to some of my better sounding amplifiers. I also didn't have Klipsch speakers then, so never got to try it with the Cornwall's. -Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 ---------------- On 3/22/2004 6:49:24 PM GRB wrote: Thanks, Dean. My other choice would be to move my '76 Pioneer SA-9500 II from the family room to push the Cornwalls. Any appreciable difference in an older ss and the newer one? ---------------- I think you'll find the pioneer to sound significantly better with the corns than your newer receiver running 2-channel. I had the same issue when I got my sony ES last year. My 1976 Kenwood sounded so much better it wasn't even funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tillmbil Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I actually thought the discussion was done in good taste. Thanks go to Andy and Dean for their opinions. I especially like what Andy said about baracks and the music. Andy, What did you use for a source with the Heresys? I have Herseys, Cornwalls and Khorns and I prefer Tube sound with all of them. The best SS sound I produced was when I used my B&K ST202 run through a Dynaco Pas3. It tammed the highs on the Cornwalls. The Heresys sound great on my Scott 299D with a cheap Yamie CD player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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