Darren Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 For those of you with RF-7's and a sub, where do you have your cross-over set and how do you define your mains (ie, large, small...). I have my RF-7's as "small" and the cross-over set at 80hz - low freq directed just to the sub (as opposed to selecting "both" which I think is only an option if you set the mains to "large"). Just curious how others ended up after playing with options for a while. A similar thread went through this a couple months ago, but it was specific to a smaller speaker. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I have my front 3 set to large. I think the crossover is at 80 but I'm not sure.. It's what ever the receiver sets it at by default. I just know they are at large. I think too, it would depend on how much power your reciever has to offer.. If it has pleanty of power, run them large, if not, then I would run them small and let your sub take on more work.... I'm no authority on this. There are guys here who most likely will come back and show you the error in my ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strabo Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 ---------------- On 3/30/2004 2:46:41 AM m00n wrote: I think too, it would depend on how much power your reciever has to offer.. If it has pleanty of power, run them large, if not, then I would run them small and let your sub take on more work.... ---------------- This is the key. If your amp can handle it. Let your ears be the judge. If it is distorting then move the crossover point higher otherwise you risk ruining your speakers. Even though most amps these days are rated 125+ watts, it isn't necessarily true, especially with all channels driven under varying loads. So your crossover point depends on your situation. 80hz is a save bet. If you can adjust it in 5 or 10 hz increments then try lowering it and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yromj Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 There is one other issue to consider when setting your speakers up, and that is midrange clarity. Some people have found that the midrange is more clear when they set their speakers to small. The best thing to do is experiment...errr...tweak. Enjoy the process, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I have mine set to: Mains = Large Bass = Both so the sub and the mains play the lows....and well it works best for me..... Experiment and play..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 RF-7's set to SMALL, what a waste that is. Increase midrange clarity say what, midrange does not even play a role until 600Hz or higher, especially higher in a two-way speaker depending on the driver and crossover. You are going to be missing alot of impact and bass impact restricting those big speakers like that. I have ALL speakers set to LARGE and bass to everything! I am not missing anything. As stated whatever sounds best to you is what truly counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I have my RF-7's set to small, and I have the Crossover set at 40Hz. Sounds awesome. I would highly recommend this setting if your receiver allows you to set the X-over that low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 ---------------- On 3/30/2004 11:43:45 AM toddvj wrote: I have my RF-7's set to small, and I have the Crossover set at 40Hz. Sounds awesome. I would highly recommend this setting if your receiver allows you to set the X-over that low. ---------------- ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! although it sounds like a paradox, my receiver allows a LOWER frequency setting for the mains when they are set to 'small' than large. MORE importantly, it DOES allow down to 40Hz roll-off-to-sub from the l/r front; center; and surrounds all independant! i have the klf-30's at 40Hz, the c-7 center and ksp-s6's to 60Hz. when i get a klf-20/30 for a center front, i'll re-adjust the center to 40Hz. also-imo-you have to have a good-to-great sub to make this work right. avman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Setting them to SMALL with a crossover point of 40hz is essentially the same as having them set to LARGE since you will still be 12db down from 40Hz at that crossover point (28Hz). I doubt that your receiver or preamp has a steeper crossover slope than 12db. Most receivers just offer a fixed setting of 80Hz which in my opinion is a little high for a speaker the caliber of an RF-7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted March 30, 2004 Author Share Posted March 30, 2004 Like everything in this hobby / obsession, I guess there is no "right" answer. My processor allows cross-over adjustments in 20 hzt increments - I think as low as 20 and as high as 140. I don't know if I can set the cross over from the mains / center / surround separately - I think they're all together, but will double check. Setting the RF-7's to small was painful, but the benefit I think I'm getting is cleaner bass - the sub and mains are not putting out the same low signals and getting "muddy" bass. I think a lower cross-over (60 or even 40) will better utilize the RF-7s and still leave a lot for the sub to handle. I'll play with that. The amp has plenty of power for the other options - 200w x 5 channels driven together. Again - thanks for the ideas and feedback! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I run my RF-7s as small with the crossover at 80 Hz. I formerly used a 50 Hz crossover, but 80 works better. If my receiver offered a 60 Hz crossover, I would be inclined to give it a try. Speakers should be able to play one full octave below the crossover to blend with the sub. The Rf-7s go down to 32 Hz, so 64 Hz would theoretically be the ideal crossover. Frequency sweeps showed a gap in the bass with a 50 Hz crossover. My RF-7s are not in corners, but do have excellent amplification from a 140 watt B&K amp. Different room acoustics may give different results. In any case, the RSW-15 provides lots of tight bass below 80 Hz. In the final analysis, crossovers for the RF-7s depend on personal preferences and room acoustics. "Small" allows for tighter bass in my HT, "large" provides more bass at the cost of a bit of bass muddyness and a less defined mid-range. In the final analysis, each person should develop his own preference based upon listening tests over time. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 A couple clarifications. My processor allows a cross-over as low as 40hz (not 20 as I indicated above), and I can't selected different cross-over setting for the mains, center and surround (just one setting - effects all speakers set as "small"). Now the issue is a bit different. 60 Hz cross-over is probably great with the RF-7s, but would it be too low for the RC-7 and RS-7s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 poor rf 7's, setting them to small, thats like raising a child but not feeding them, setting them to small robs them of thier potential. they were designed to be center stage, not a supporting actor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 Breaks your heart doesn't it? Sounds silly, but I really had a hard time setting them to "small" (they weigh over 90 lbs for crying out loud!). But then, why did Klipsch make the RSW-15 to match them? Is it really "better" to leave the RF-7's as large and get some bass muddle when the towers and sub play the same low signals? I've played around with several settings - honestly, mostof them sounded really good and I don't think I've concluded yet what sounds best to me. When I had them "large", I didn't really pick up much bass "mud". When I set them small (and a cross over at 80 or 60 hz), I didn't feel like the 7's were being cheated - definitely had great balanced sound. I guess if there was 1 "right" answer, we'd all have the same system and settings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yromj Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Setting your speakers to small doesn't "rob" them of anything, especially in HT. First off cross-overs are not absolute walls, but operate on slopes. Most have 18-24 dB/octave slope. Therefore, just because you set a cross-over to 60 dB doesn't mean the mains are sent NO signal at all below 60 dB. That's just where the "transition", if you will, begins to take place. The reason I said "especially in HT" is that there is another result for setting your speakers to large in HT. That is your mains are not only sent their full range signal, but also the low end from the OTHER speakers as well. This can muddy things up. (BTW, I mentioned the mid-range being more clear because the same driver is doing the bass and the midrange. Therefore, if that driver can be used for less bass then the midrange will clear up because the effects things such as Doppler distortion are minimized.) The bottom line is "small or large" is not the best term the industry could have used for this setting. Just remember to tweak and listen. The only thing that really matters is how they sound to YOU. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 ---------------- On 3/31/2004 9:54:14 AM yromj wrote: Setting your speakers to small doesn't "rob" them of anything, especially in HT. First off cross-overs are not absolute walls, but operate on slopes. Most have 18-24 dB/octave slope. Therefore, just because you set a cross-over to 60 dB doesn't mean the mains are sent NO signal at all below 60 dB. That's just where the "transition", if you will, begins to take place. ---------------- Agreed, but if you are using RF-7s exclusively for HT, you are "robbing" yourself. Anyone who thinks that the bass will be muddy if you send the RF-7s a full range either hasn't listened to the speakers, or is running a Subwoofer that isn't set correctly, IMO. I would definitely feel comfortable running these speakers WITHOUT a sub and know that they would sound great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yromj Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 ---------------- On 3/31/2004 11:37:52 PM toddvj wrote: Agreed, but if you are using RF-7s exclusively for HT, you are "robbing" yourself. Anyone who thinks that the bass will be muddy if you send the RF-7s a full range either hasn't listened to the speakers, or is running a Subwoofer that isn't set correctly, IMO. I would definitely feel comfortable running these speakers WITHOUT a sub and know that they would sound great. ---------------- I agree that the RF-7s are AWESOME for 2 channel. (In fact my personal preference would be the RB-75s if it were for 100% HT, but that's just MY preference.) I should have made myself more clear on what I was saying about being muddy. I've heard the RF-7s in a few different setups now and have never heard them to be muddy at all. What I was trying to say was that you may be able to achieve even more clarity by setting them to small. Again, this is more apt to be true in an HT because of the signals from the other channels being sent to the mains. Discussions about this are fun, but trying new things and hearing the results for yourself is the MOST fun!! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 Man i literally would drive people nuts setting crossovers and gain on a sub. I probablly did this for six years straight everyday i had a chance. This is no exaggeration. I always like 80 90 crossover. Their for awhile i liked the 40 with the gain lower. Now i really dig the 100 120 crossover for more slam. Their just isn't much slam to me lower than 100. A little direction to it but nothing you notice real bad. I think the low frequency effect in dolby digital is about 120 hz. Good for explosions and lion roars ext. Just another opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 Wheelman, It sounds like you are talking about settings on the subwoofer itself. I have my crossover set at the highest setting. That is a totally seperate issue from the setting on the receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 Darren - this is my vote for Bill's (MrMcgoo) comments. I spent bunches of mistakes on getting to the same conclusion. Going a full octave around a crossover is an excellent (and my minimum) way to blend at the crossover point. Set at 80hz you would want a speaker that performs decent to 40hz and a sub that is fine with 160hz. Setting to small is not a slap at the speakers performance, but a decision to use another speaker in your system (the subwoofer). And - I find it is very nice with music as well - I don't feel like I lose anything. BTW - this is a generic comment - I do not use reference stuff - but has been true on every other good setup I have built or heard. My opinion only... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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