Deang Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Here, build this for your Belles. Come back and tell us what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Chris, Dean is right. The UTC transformer is slightly better and give you an extra tap (x), but the Klipsch T2A is fine. Dean, What the heck is that network you posted? Al K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 A little bit this, a little bit of that. PK came up with the values for this particular parallel trap for the squawker in 1977: It's for the K-55-V only. http://www.delphion.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US04237340__ "PWK designed this to lift the falling response of the K55V before slamming it off hard at 5Khz. Because of the non-coincidence of the mid-range and the tweeter, there are a series of dips and peaks on either side of the crossover point. Cutting the midrange off with a steep filter like this will reduce both the frequency spread and amplitude of these peaks... change the second 2µF to 6µF, and the choke is close enough (existing 245µH vs the specified new value of 236µH). This mod makes the response in the 4~7Khz region smoother. Also note the addition of the 128µF cap in parallel with the woofer. On the K/B/LS this fills in a dip in the 250~400hz region. This is only for type AA networks. Type AK/AB/AL already have this part...The parallel trap is only for K55V mids. E2 and B2 networks were used with the Hepner (later made by Klipsch) mid (K52,53,57,etc), and do not need the trap." From one of Dennis' posts -- long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 ---------------- On 1/18/2005 9:29:36 PM DeanG wrote: Here, build this for your Belles. Come back and tell us what you think. ---------------- Dean, If you are serious about this, I cannot build it. My Belles have type AB's with a K-55-M squaker. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Frequency response of the Klipschorn bass horn from the JAES article on the Jubiliee -- where you can see the falling response between 250 and 400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Sure you can -- it just means you don't need the trap on the squawker. My Type AB schematic is at work. I should have it memerized, but it's tough with everything else floating around in my head (mostly loose brain matter:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Dean is this the deal you were telling me about on the phone ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 Yes. The value across the woofer can be varied quite a bit. You can use 100Hz, 128Hz, 136Hz, or 140Hz. The last two values really drop the impedance, that's why I told you to try 100uF. According to Dennis, not only does changing the second 2uF to 6uF smooth out the response -- but it also leaves the top sounding more like the Type A -- at least, that's the impression I was left with. What I find interesting is all the posts about how PK's favorite filter was the Type A, but as late as 1977 he was still tweaking away, and apparently laid the ground work for the later filters. Looks like he never quit doing everything he could to squeeze everything he could out of that bass horn. One could even use a couple of electrolytics in that spot -- and they could be screwed right to the set screws in the terminal strips. Might take a whole 10 minutes to do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Guys, Here's the computer analysis of the modified network Dean posted above. It's looking through the squawker filter. The woofer filter is idnetical to the AB in the BElle. The tweeter filter is similar to my type universal A replacement. The squawker is the AA network plus the two new parts. I will leave it up to you if it's a good thing or not! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Al, What would be really handy is if you could put up graph's like that on a standard Klipsch Type A and AA for direct comparison. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 That doesn't look very good to me. I think your computer is broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 You said, "looking through the squawker" -- so, are we just seeing the squawker's response? Source impedance of .1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Real quick inductor question. If I have teh space, the two litz wire conductors can be mounted flat (like the 2.4 solid) right? I am assuming that you mount them on their side for space reasons and not to cool them or anything like that. Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 ---------------- On 1/17/2005 3:23:38 PM D-MAN wrote: Sheesh, guys, wouldn't it be better spent in upgrading the drivers instead? But that's probably a bit more spendy... But I DO understand the concept of wanting to further hop-up the hot rod. DM ---------------- Of course I agree with D-Man here. Change the engine or build a new car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Guys, Several questions, in no particular order: * The Litz inductors are mounted on their edge so that all three are at 90 degree angles to each other. They are also sitting perpendicular to each other. This is to prevent coupling betrween them. Heat is not an issue at all. Tow inductors will not coulle each other if the winding are at 90 degrres to each other and PRECISELY senter to center no matter how close they are to each other. * My computer analysis program uses a technique called "ladder analysis". Its big limitation is that it only see one output at a time. I can display the complex impedance looking into the entire network at once though. In filter-eze it called "S11" and "S12". * Yes, the source impedance is assumed to be .1 Ohms. This is why the reference level on the plot is a stupid number. Just ignore that! * I will past up a few plots of the other networks and post them later. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Craig, You asked for it! Here's plots of the A, AA, AK-3, my universal type A, and my ES-Khorn extreme-slope networks. Be very carefull to look at the scale factors. They are not all the same from one plot to the other. That information is to the right in the same color as the plot. Look for db / division and Ohms / division. The "Ref.", or reference line, is the very top line of the plot. I did the AL also but forgot to past it in. It's just more of the same though. AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 ---------------- On 1/19/2005 8:30:20 PM Al Klappenberger wrote: Craig, You asked for it! Here's plots of the A, AA, AK-3, my universal type A, and my AS-Khonr extreme-slope networks. Be very carefull to look at the scale factors. They are not all the same from one plot to the other. That information is to the right in the same color as the plot. Look for db / division and Ohms / division. The "Ref.", or reference line, is the very top line of the plot. I did the AL also but forgot to past it in. It's just more of the same though. AL K. ---------------- AL, The attaches file comes up very small, can't read it. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Chris, Just put your mouse over the image and click to make it bigger. Al, Can you offer some commentary on what these graphs mean in the real world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 CALLING ALL CARS -- BONER -- I screwed up one of the plots! The AK-3 plot was assuming an 8 ohms source impedance. Here's the corrected plot from a .1 Ohms source. The LaScala "AL" plot is included. AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Chris, Well, I think the bigest point is that there nothing at all in the squawker section of any of the Klipsch netwroks to stop energy above 6 KHz from going to the squawker. They all run the squawker from 400 Hz up. The impedance seen by the amp is all over the place too. AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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