Deang Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Hoggy (Steve) wanted to see if it was possible to squeeze just a little bit more out of his ALKS. I told him I thought we could, but we wouldn't know unless we did it -- and then he would have to decide if it was worth it. "What do you want to do?" He asked me. I convinced him that to get the last bit out of them -- he would have to color coordinate the boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 7, 2004 Author Share Posted April 7, 2004 That's Al's work -- all I did was replace the Solens with Auricaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 So what's the verdict? Do the Auricaps make a 'worthwhile' difference? Or has Hoffy not had a chance to compare yet? Those won't work in your Khorns, Dean, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 nice eggs, ham, red peppers and potatoes; good enough to eat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 7, 2004 Author Share Posted April 7, 2004 These shipped out today, so Steve won't be able to weigh in until this weekend sometime. I hope it makes a difference, because it was a rather expensive experiment -- even with my OEM pricing. It's like I told Steve though -- even if he can't hear a difference, they look really cool. I also "conditioned" all of the caps. The downside here is that if he hears an "improvement", we won't know if it's the Auricaps or the conditioning that did it. Of course, I don't think Al gives any credence to the conditioning process Leo and myself use, nor do I believe he thinks there is a hill of beans difference between the Solens bypassed with the Harmonies, or what I just did. This is no slam on Al, and in the end -- he might be absolutely right. As often happens with this crazy hobby -- we all try different things and often come to totally different conclusions. I experimented with bypassing in one pair of my Original Advents, and I just couldn't tell a difference between that -- and just running the electrolytics alone. I understand that the Advents are not Klipsch, but I was suprised I couldn't hear a difference -- especially with the use of electrolytics. One thing that may have accounted for this is that the Advent doesn't have squat output above 14Khz, and whatever work the Theta was doing might have been well above that -- I just don't know. However when I replaced the electrolytics with straight film and foils -- there was a big difference. I had never really studied the ALK schematic before until a week or so ago. Whenever I saw a picture of the board, I always assumed the large 39uF Solen at the beginning of the circuit was feeding the woofer -- and the Solens are perfect for this kind of thing. I joked with Al once that I didn't understand why he was using a bypass cap there, and he joked back that it sure couldn't hurt -- which of course is perfectly true. While checking out the schematic I realized the Solen was feeding the entire HF circuit, and then I immediately understood why he was using the 1uF Harmony with it. I have no love for the Solens, and others as well won't use them in series with a HF driver, or in critical applications in preamps or amplifiers. The problem however is what does one do if they need a large value in a critical part of a circuit? There aren't many options. One could parallel four 10uF Hovlands, and the eight to do both boards would be $375! It's just too much damn money for most people. The only other two ways are using something like a Solen with a nice bypass cap, or move up to some higher quality metallized types. I choose the latter because I have my doubts about the efficacy of bypassing. We'll see. It wouldn't be the first time I ate crow around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggy Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Well Dean you made a beliver out of me. To me the Auricaps and/or conditioning made all the differnce. Al's design is a great one and with the much more expensive Auricaps I'm estatic with the sound now where as before I was happy but not quite convinced. Others may not think it is worth the price differnce but to me hearing both there's no contest. I cannot say enough good about Al or Dean. They're both men of integrity and care about peoples music experiences. Both are willing to bend over backwards to make others happy. Thanks Al and Dean, hoggy PS I've only listened for 6 or 8 hours since changing the networks. Also my statements above are my own personal opinions. EDIT PPS Both Al and Dean do great work. They are both fine craftsman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 Hoggy, Glad to see your gamble is paying off ! Keep us up to date on your impressions as you settle in with more lsitening time. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggy Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 Well I played around a lot with the differnt tap setting today. Persoally I like the 5,2 setting the best. I'll keep you guys informed the best I can. Right now I cannot exactly pinpoint what I like better but I can say the ALK's do definately sound better now. Voices, and upper bass especially. Also the cymbals seem to "ching" (for lack of a better word) better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggy Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 Well I played around a lot with the differnt tap setting today. Persoally I like the 5,2 setting the best. I'll keep you guys informed the best I can. Right now I cannot exactly pinpoint what I like better but I can say the ALK's do definately sound better now. Voices, and upper bass especially. Also the cymbals seem to "ching" (for lack of a better word) better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggy Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 Well I played around a lot with the differnt tap setting today. Persoally I like the 5,2 setting the best. I'll keep you guys informed the best I can. Right now I cannot exactly pinpoint what I like better but I can say the ALK's do definately sound better now. Voices, and upper bass especially. Also the cymbals seem to "ching" (for lack of a better word) better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggy Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 Wow a triple post. Sorry guys. My connections been acting up tonight. I keep losing it than it's back on. hoggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 15, 2004 Author Share Posted April 15, 2004 Hi Steve, A welcome change of subject. So, things are working out O.K. over there? I'm glad. I had some real concerns while I was doing the work. I kept thinking, "Oh my God, what if he doesn't hear a difference?" -- but my gut kept telling me you would. The funny thing is, I have those thoughts everytime I build a set of anything, but each time the customer comes back with good reports. This is naturally very important to me, because it validates what I've learned, and the conclusions I've come too. The ALKs are voiced with those type parts to begin with -- so I figured they'd respond very favorably to the change. I'm really happy you're enjoying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggy Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 Dean, In all fairness the change I hear was worth it to me. The extra expense may not be for others. We all know everyone hears sounds differntly. I'm 54 years old and my hearing is in all probability not that great. I'd feel pretty bad if someone spent the extra money to find the differnce not worth it. Guess I feel the same as you do in that I'd worry they'd be disappointed. OTOH I'm quite happy. hoggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 ---------------- On 4/7/2004 11:31:56 AM DeanG wrote: That's Al's work -- all I did was replace the Solens with Auricaps. ---------------- Dean, How much are a complete set of Auricaps for ALK's conditioned and ready to install? Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 16, 2005 Author Share Posted January 16, 2005 A hell of a lot. Are you insane like Steve? Solen 39uF bypassed with 1uF Harmony replaced with two 20uF Auricaps in parallel -- four 20uF's total, $168.00 shipped. However, a 40uF Zen from www.Northcreekmusic.com, or a 40uF AudioCap from www.percyaudio.com RelCap might get you most of the way there for half as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 ---------------- On 1/16/2005 5:30:08 PM DeanG wrote: A hell of a lot. Are you insane like Steve? Solen 39uF bypassed with 1uF Harmony replaced with two 20uF Auricaps in parallel -- four 20uF's total, $168.00 shipped. However, a 40uF Zen from www.Northcreekmusic.com, or a 40uF AudioCap from www.percyaudio.com RelCap might get you most of the way there for half as much. ---------------- Dean. I may be insane, but just checking out my options, don't want to do this two times!! What about the 6.2 + 1.0 uF section? It looks like you replaced teh Solens and Hovlands in that section too. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 ---------------- On 1/16/2005 5:30:08 PM DeanG wrote: A hell of a lot. Are you insane like Steve? Solen 39uF bypassed with 1uF Harmony replaced with two 20uF Auricaps in parallel -- four 20uF's total, $168.00 shipped. However, a 40uF Zen from www.Northcreekmusic.com, or a 40uF AudioCap from www.percyaudio.com RelCap might get you most of the way there for half as much. ---------------- Dean. I may be insane, but just checking out my options, don't want to do this two times!! What about the 6.2 + 1.0 uF section? It looks like you replaced the Solens and Harmony's in that section too. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 No, I put a 7uF Auricap there. I was on the fence at the time about using bypass caps in networks. Since that time however I've run across plenty of additional info that leads me to believe there's some validity to it. At any rate, Al says it's a non-critical part of the circuit, so I would leave that section just the way it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Dean, Looks good and seems rational to me, including the concepts that seem so irrational to Al. I conditioned the caps on Chris's crossovers, but he never mentioned if there was any noticeable change. As I switched between the pwm amp and pp amp on my Chorus-IIs this weekend I thought of a characteristic of some of Al's crossovers that he mentions, but people may not pay that much attention to, and that is the constant impedance some (all?) his crossovers present to the amp. This would make the speakers much more tube amp friendly. Maybe I could learn to do this for the Chorus-IIs. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Leo, Offtopic question that I posted this elsewhere: I just picked up a Phillips 963 and want to do the Blackgate cap mod. I read LeoK's old thread and have a few questions: 1. Others have mentioned that it takes about 200 hours to break in the cap. However, Leo mentioned (I think) in another thread that he was working on a method of breaking the cap in on the workbench before install. Has this been perfected yet? 2. Draining the old cap. I am assuming that I just use a resistor across the taps to drain the old cap. Am I correct and what size and specs for the resistor? 3. I need to buy a new soldering iron. Need reccomendations. Rat Shak has a $30 gun style model that is 150w/240w. I think that I probably need one of these and a pen style iron (what wattage)? I need to be able to solder on a circuit board and on lugs for resistors, capacitors, etc and my old iron is way too weak. Are the Rat Shak models up to the job or should I be looking on ebay for an industrial unit? Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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