Better than live?

[HornPenguin]

An interesting thought came across my mind a few weeks ago while a friend and I were watching Glen Campbell perform in Galveston, Texas. I started thinking that he sounded more dynamic and alive on my stereo back home in my living room. But how can that be? The show was in the Grand Opra House, built in 1894. We had come from a wonderful dinner and drinks and Glen was putting on a great show. He received the key to the city from the mayor of Galveston. Now my system is not by any means the end all. But let me tell you, when those tubes and horns are cooking there is some serious music going on. And in fairness to Glen, we were on the second balcony, not the best seat in the house. He was also not accompanied by an orchestra on this show, not to mention most of the audience was an older crowd, so maybe he kept the volume down. But, nevertheless, I was thinking about the better performances in my living room. My system must rock. That can be the only explanation, right? That show made me appreciate my system even more than I previously did.

[fini]

Glen Campbell is a great guitarist with a great voice. Especially when doing a Jimmy Webb tune. (Similar to the perfect pairing of Dionne Warwick and Burt Bacharach). Very cool you were able to see him live!

The 1894 Opera House was (obviously) not built with amplification in mind, and I doubt Glen performed totally acoustic (go see The Asylum Street Spankers, based in Austin, for that treat!). The house electronics may have not been set-up very well. Actually, I find very few live performances to be sonically superior to my home set-up. It's usually way too loud for my pleasure, but the ambiance is cool, hanging out with other fans, taking pictures, etc.

[Daddy Dee]

HP,

Thanks for the interesting post. Can't offer any technical help on a compare and contrast of that particular venue and your system, but as I reflected on it, I believe I do know what you mean.

There are indeed times that, looking back, I have listened to music reproduced on my system that was "better" than live.

A couple of things come to mind that are in the subjective realm and perhaps beyond what could be measured and reasonably compared.. ie. concert hall vs home acoustics with gear, etc.

The word "involving" comes to mind. That audiophile review word which as a criteria for evaluating gear, tubes, or a nice looking gal at the bar... either makes or breaks the subjects' assessment of the whatever.

In all humility, that's one of those situations where I don't know WHAT is happening, just know that SOMETHING is happening.

[Chris Robinson]

Glad to see Glen's bounced back from a difficult period. I don't know the details, but I recall seeing him looking pretty ragged after a tustle with the local police somewhere.

[HornPenguin]

The show itself was great. It seems to me that Glen was really enjoying himself and it showed. At some point after recieving the city key, he played Galveston to a standing audience. I believe that this was his first ever appearence in Galveston. Afterwards, I purchased a signed CD of a performance that he did earlier with the South Dakota Symphony. Excellent show, excellent company. I would never have traded the experience for staying at home and listening to my stereo. But, just maybe the show jogged my memory as too how good by home system really is.

[3dzapper]

Horny Bird,

It's a curse. One we Klipschsters must endure for the good of humanity.

When you find any venue that sounds as good as you home Klipsch system consider it a fleeting treasure. Touring groups don't know what they will have to work with from show to show and do the best that they can to put on a great show.

There are a couple of former "roadies" hereabouts that can illuminate us all what goes on behind the show.

Rick

[IB Slammin]

HP,

I have always felt that way. I agree with Dee, but thats only the tip of the iceberg. Especially with rock groups. IMO, a group that sounds better live than the recording, is rare. In the studio, if you don't like what you played, you lay down track after track..until you do. Mix and re-mix. Don't even have to play together, or even at the same time or place. Live, they get only one chance to do it right. I could list many groups that sounded super at home but live, it was like they had never played together. Doobie Bros and ZZ Top were a couple. Count Basie, EL&P, Zappa are a few that were outstanding IMO.

Terry

[Woodog]

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On 5/22/2004 6:30:50 AM fini wrote:

Glen Campbell is a great guitarist with a great voice. Especially when doing a Jimmy Webb tune. (Similar to the perfect pairing of Dionne Warwick and Burt Bacharach). Very cool you were able to see him live!

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I remember seeing Glenn Campbell and George Benson playing together on TV once.. either the tonight show (with Johnny Carson) or Saturday Night Live. Glenn Campbell played George Benson UNDER the table.

A couple of years ago I heard a solo CD by Jimmy Webb, very spare, just voice and piano, and it is absolutely superb.

I really feel for the sound engineers at shows. They never quite know what they are going to get. Having mixed sound live for my band, I found that the very best environments for live playing were absolutely dead otherwise. I could always add my own reverberation, delay, etc., but it was always difficult to deal with a naturally live sound field.

Genesis and the Grateful Dead were probably the best sounding live acts I ever heard.

Forrest

[artto]

Getting things to sound "better than live" is an easy task.

Getting things to sound so real you can't tell the difference is another matter.

Even decades ago, PWK had a friend, in the UK I believe, who wrote PWK about an "audio show" he attended that had a live verses recorded demo with several playback systems. He wrote "the orchestra came in third"

[Audible Nectar]

"When you find any venue that sounds as good as you home Klipsch system consider it a fleeting treasure"

I've been in several. But the venue is of little benefit unless the band playing the venue (and the associated gear) are good enough sounding to take advantage of the venue. It's much like the Klipsch. Playing in an acoustically perfect venue will expose a band's imperfections. They cannot blame the venue for sounding poor.

Colorado's String Cheese Incident is just the band to fit that bill. The band is TIGHT and with the highest fidelity of any current touring rock band, and they have the best soundman currently in Rock - Jon O'Leary. SCI is currently at a stage careerwise where they have the ability to invest in quality gear, yet are playing acoustically choice venues where they can really show off. Once a band gets popular enough to play arenas, this luxury disappears - and no band will sound as good in a 20,000 seat arena as they would, for example, at Chicago's acoustically perfect Auditorium Theater.

I was fortunate to score 17th row center tickets for SCI's three New Year's Eve concert dates at the Auditorium Theater. I had a feeling this would be good - especially when I read the walls of the lobby:

"Due to the perfect acoustics of this theater, there is no talking in the lobby during the performance".

In short, the acoustics heard therein are now the reference standard in live sonics that all future concerts will be judged. And that's saying a lot, having seen Pink Floyd, Paul McCartney, Grateful Dead, Peter Gabriel, Yes, U2, and a host of other bands known for good sound, as well as numerous other bands in small venues - but SCI at the AT just mopped up everybody else.

It was hard to believe that this concert took place indoors. No bounceback, reverb, echo, just the cleanest, tightest sound one can imagine. Bass to make Klipschorns sound average. No joke. Absolutely PERFECT. To steal Artto's phrase, "The proverbial acoustically tuned listening room", with the best sounding band currently touring in Rock and Roll. Absolute sonic bliss.

I've seen over 300 concerts in 20 years, and I might spend that much longer attempting to match that sonic experience. There were a few, however, that came close:

Atlanta's Fox Theater: I highly recommend the front of the balcony center, which places you above the floor, about 20 rows center. The weekend I saw SCI here, I also spent the weekend at Edster00's listening to SCI live soundboards through his SET and Klipschorns. While at the concert, my friend and I determined that the contest between Ed's Klipschorns playing SCI soundboards and the sonics at those seats at the Fox was a DRAW. I guess that means it was pretty damn good.

St. Louis Fox Theater: Another sonic treasure, again highly recommended.

Ryman Auditorium, Nashville, TN (the old "Grand Old Opry").

For a thrilling outdoor experience, try Red Rocks Amphitheater in Morrison, CO - an experience of sight, sound, and nature that will blow you away. Everyone should see thier favorite band at RR sometime.

For stadium bands, Pink Floyd ruled the roost, especially on "The Division Bell" tour. PF accomplished this by performing acoustic measurements on every stadium played that tour, then matching the sound systems to the venue. This was a big reason that they toured with three setups, as it took nearly a week to set up for a show. I doubt that a stadium gig will ever sound as good - unless PF decides to tour again.

In general, though, when it comes to amplified concerts in less than acoustically perfect places, your Klipsch should do better. IME, it is rare that I find otherwise.

[Parrot]

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On 5/22/2004 6:54:02 PM Woodog wrote:

A couple of years ago I heard a solo CD by Jimmy Webb, very spare, just voice and piano, and it is absolutely superb.

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I have this one. It's called "Ten Easy Pieces" and is an excellent choice if you're a Jimmy Webb fan.

As far as recordings sounding better sometimes than live--it's a whole different experience. A lot depends on how the recording was made; you could easily have a situation where the microphones were placed in locations that a human could never be.

Also it can be a matter of focus. It's easy to be distracted at a live performance with audience members fluttering around. If your listening room is calmer, it should allow for better concentration.