DrCharletta Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Hello fellow Klipsch lovers. After several improvements to my AC power feed to my music room, I decided to try several mods suggested by forum members. I tried the rope caulk on my K400, but it didn't stay in place. I've also seen this material dry out over time. While at the auto parts store Saturday, I found a spray can of 'rubberized underbody spray'. I thought this might be worth a try, so I bought it, and carefully disassembled the midrange horn from my 1977 Klipschorns. I carefully sealed the throat and mouth of the horn, hung them with a rope from an old clothes pole, and sprayed them with the material over a period of several days (the 'little woman' thinks I'm crazy by the way). I gave them a total of 8 thin coats. When I got through, they didn't "ring" like before when I tapped them with a small hammar. I just installed them in my speakers, and am amazed at the improved articulation of the vocals. As an opera enthusiast, you can imagine how sensitive I am to the human voice. If you do try this, please post your impressions here. -Dr. Manfred Charletta, retired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCharletta Posted May 25, 2004 Author Share Posted May 25, 2004 I neglected to mention to let the material totally dry between coats. Also, be sure the material has thoroughly dried before placing the K400 back in speaker cabinet. Here in New Mexico, it's very warm and it dries quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 The easiest thing to do is simply to upgrade to the K-401. Klipsch sells them for $49 each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good2BHome Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 ---------------- On 5/25/2004 12:47:09 PM DeanG wrote: The easiest thing to do is simply to upgrade to the K-401. Klipsch sells them for $49 each. ---------------- Dean, What makes the K-401 special/better? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 It's plastic and is more mechanically inert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 It is made from composite material and has integrated ribs to prevent any kind of ringing or anomolies, it is also lighter. I recently replaced the K-400 in my '78 La Scala and '86 Pro La Scala top section. Strange as it may seem I perceived more detail after replacing them, perhaps it was only a mental thing. The center hole seemed slightly larger than the one in the K-400. Best of all I sold my K-400's and it completely paid for the new horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCharletta Posted May 25, 2004 Author Share Posted May 25, 2004 Thank you for the information. Is the K401 a drop-in replacement for the K400 in a pair of 1977 Klipschorns? I have the K55V midrange drivers with the solder lugs (upgraded in 1982). Do I have to contact a dealer or go directly through Klipsch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Yep Doc, they drop right in, the holes line right up. I only had to resecure the rear brace on my '78 La Scala since the hole on the K-400 was slightly further back than the one on the K-401K. You can call Klipsch parts directly at 1-800-Klipsch, choose the parts option. They are like $49 & change apiece, I bought two and Klipsch covered the shipping. I hope you modified the "AA" crossovers when you replaced the K-55V's with the K-55M's I don't think they are a drop in replacement since Klipsch changed all the crossovers in the Heritage line when they went to the K-55M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 ---------------- On 5/25/2004 12:13:50 PM DrCharletta wrote: Hello fellow Klipsch lovers. After several improvements to my AC power feed to my music room, I decided to try several mods suggested by forum members. I tried the rope caulk on my K400, but it didn't stay in place. I've also seen this material dry out over time. While at the auto parts store Saturday, I found a spray can of 'rubberized underbody spray'. I thought this might be worth a try, so I bought it, and carefully disassembled the midrange horn from my 1977 Klipschorns. I carefully sealed the throat and mouth of the horn, hung them with a rope from an old clothes pole, and sprayed them with the material over a period of several days (the 'little woman' thinks I'm crazy by the way). I gave them a total of 8 thin coats. When I got through, they didn't "ring" like before when I tapped them with a small hammar. I just installed them in my speakers, and am amazed at the improved articulation of the vocals. As an opera enthusiast, you can imagine how sensitive I am to the human voice. If you do try this, please post your impressions here. -Dr. Manfred Charletta, retired ---------------- Doctor: I believe there is a familiar sound to your name. The Captain of my Patrol Section (Genesee Section 3) retired and moved to New Mexico. He would make frequent trips back as he gave seminars on Behavioral Science. Does the name Lou Campanozzi sound familiar? He would speak of other Professors and Instructors. If you retired within the past eighteen (18) months or so, I am saddened to say that he passed on. He was a friend and superior for fourteen (14) years. Win dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 FYI - I have heard / read many comparisons well respected horn heads who prefer a dampened K400 over the K401. Give the 401 a try if you want, but be prepaired to hold on to your 400. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCharletta Posted May 25, 2004 Author Share Posted May 25, 2004 No Dodger, I don't know him. We only moved here last winter. I can't believe anything can be better than my 'new' K400 damped horn. The articulation is scary. Has anyone ever tried this on the metal horns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 ---------------- On 5/25/2004 7:13:35 PM DrCharletta wrote: No Dodger, I don't know him. We only moved here last winter. I can't believe anything can be better than my 'new' K400 damped horn. The articulation is scary. Has anyone ever tried this on the metal horns? ---------------- My experience with the K400 horn was that it was improved with damping. The material I used was dynamat and it worked well. I would think that the product you found would produce a visually pleasing outcome as well. I was curious enough about the K401 (plastic/resin/whatever) replacement for the K400 to compare them head to head. To my ears I could not tell a difference between the damped K400 and the K401. The most amazing thing about the K401 is that Klipsch parts can sell them for $49 each. Klipsch sells the replacement for the Belle K500 horn for $137 each. The difference I assume is due to the volume of K400 replacements sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 There is a Dope from Hope article regarding the improvements of the K-401 over the K-400. Considering the price, and the fact you don't have to spend a whole evening fighting with rope caulk -- it's kind of a no-brainer. The "secret" to working with the caulk is to keep your fingers a little wet. It's like working with clay, and I used a little bowl of water while I was working. Wrap the horn with with caulk, then go back over it with wet hands and apply as much pressure as you can -- then start working it flat with the fingers -- and I mean "work". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCharletta Posted May 26, 2004 Author Share Posted May 26, 2004 I did an experiment with my K400 horns. When I hung them on the old clothes pole to spray them, I first lightly tapped them with a small hammar. They literally rang like a bell! When I completed the 8 sprayed on coatings, they were inert... no ringing when tapped. They look very nice too. As for the rope caulk, this stuff eventually dries out. Have you ever used it around the house? I'd be concerned that all of it was in good contact with the entire horn. My method works very well. I have a friend in town who has newer Klipschorns with the plastic K401's. I'm going to try to convence him to remove them (the K401's) and bring them over for a direct comparison by installing them in my spaekers (using my alnico K55V's). It will likely take a bottle of Chevis Regal to get him to do it (LOL), but it will be worth it. Has anyone done a direct comparison? Happy listening to my fellow Klipschorn enthusiasts! -Manfred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J M O N Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Just curious, where abouts in New Mexico are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 "I have a friend in town who has newer Klipschorns with the plastic K401's. I'm going to try to convince him to remove them (the K401's) and bring them over for a direct comparison by installing them in my speakers (using my alnico K55V's). It will likely take a bottle of Chevis Regal to get him to do it (LOL), but it will be worth it. Has anyone done a direct comparison?" That would be a huge waste of time and energy (and Chevis). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCharletta Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 "That would be a huge waste of time and energy (and Chevis)." --------------------------------------------------------- Many people here do 'tube rolling'; substituting different brands of tubes in a piece of equipment. Comparing a damped aluminum horn to a ribbed plastic one would be something I'd be interested in doing. I'm retired, so what might be a "waste of time" to a busy person as yourself would be worthwhile to this curious soul. -Manfred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Well, If I was closer to NM, I'd be interested in showing up for the A/B. And I promise, no Chevis would be wasted! And BTW, you have to remember that to the general culture, that is what audiophiles do... waste their time. There are even some married guys on this forum whose wives think that is what they do on reading and posting on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCharletta Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 DaddyDee wrote: >And BTW, you have to remember that to the general culture, that is what audiophiles do... waste their time. There are even some married guys on this forum whose wives think that is what they do on reading and posting on this forum ------------------------------------------------------ DaddyDee: Yes, the 'little woman' has a problem of my hobby, especially now since I'm retired and have more time to play (I just retired last month). She doesn't appreciate my interests, but she does enjoy the music, and loves the Klipschorns. She was involved in the decision to buy these speakers and the electronics, but now doesn't want me to upgrade the electronics (and money isn't an issue for us), but she says "it sounds so good, why mess with perfection?". I actually took out the K400 horns while she was out of the house! My Khorns and Belle are oiled walnut with cane grillcloth. She likes the 'fine furniture' look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 ---------------- On 5/26/2004 12:32:29 PM DrCharletta wrote: I did an experiment with my K400 horns. When I hung them on the old clothes pole to spray them, I first lightly tapped them with a small hammar. They literally rang like a bell! When I completed the 8 sprayed on coatings, they were inert... no ringing when tapped ---------------- If you tap the K400 when installed, you get no such ringing. The attachment to the baffle takes care of that. I would think that any improvement would be due to mass loading and reduction of Doppler distortion. Haven't tried it myself, the industrial damping sheets are sitting in a box in the basement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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