ben. Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 As some may be aware, I jumped on a pair of MC-30s not too long ago. I hadn't really considered them until I realized that their reputation exceeds their price, so long as one is not overly concerned with cosmetic perfection. This is truly a rarity in the realm of things MC, as well as higher-end audio in general. I selected a pair advertised as working fine (and they are!!). I already had a pair of Heathkit W5M at my tech's for a "no-rush" rebuild. They are still there, and will get a basic, recoupable rebuild, after which they will go head to head with the MCs for my own education. Anyhow, I had purchased a lot of 350B output tubes for the W5M. Happily, they come highly recommended for the MC-30 as well. Our own Allan Songer swears by them, and has suffered many a question from yours truly along the way. I enjoyed the MC-30s for a while with the supplied tubes, Tele 12AX7 & 12AU7, and RCA & Sylvania 12BH7. Outputs were Soviet made International Servicemaster in one, and RCA built in the other. 5U4 rects were GE in both. I won't attempt to verbalize every benefit I've noticed in the upgrade from my 299C, but it was not a subtle change. My mother, up visiting the lil tike Miles, commented that even though they look like something from "2001: A Space Odyssey", they are much "sharper" sounding. What I think she was describing is the lack of congestion one can appreciate with 30s. Even recordings with instruments that occupy the same frequency range are uncluttered, and seperation of those instruments is readily acheived. This midrange finesse is, I believe, what sets these apart from the field. Bass is soild and natural, whether the acoustics of Charlie Haden or Palle Danielson, or the impossibly low electronic subtlety of Bjork and Nellee Hooper. Highs were more extended, yet smoother sounding due to the handling of the upper mids. The overall timbral presentation is balanced and unhyped. Then I popped the 350B (not true Western Electric, but licensed to National Union, with reportedly identical construction and operation) and Sylvania 5U4G in. At first, not as dramatic as I had hoped. Everything good was just a little more so. But I now really know what "lush" sounds like. The recent Daniel Lanois album Shine made me think of so many often-used terms when describing upgraded systems. "Lifting a veil" figured prominently in that mental dialogue (monologue?). As I spend more time listening critically, certain levels of subtlety are revealing themselves to me. Even my so-so tuner sounds fantastic. Demanding recordings like Peter Gabriel's Passion are reproduced unflinchingly and faithfully. The female voice is a magical thing through this system. I have yet to discover a weakness to my ears, and have not felt a need for the extensive tone control of the Paragon. This post has been edited and lengthened against my better judgement by maxg. My original post was as follows: Boy, dese amps sure does sounds goods, yup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAPTORMAN Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 Congratulations Ben--Did you pick this up in Toronto??? Have you sold your Scott 299C yet?? So can really notice the difference with monoblocks huh??--hmmm. What preamp are you using?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudret Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 Congratulations, Ben. I've been watching MC-30s on eBay recently and the prices seem to be going up. Which pair did you pick up? If it's the one that sold for 1550, they really looked nice. Kudret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted June 12, 2004 Author Share Posted June 12, 2004 Thanks, R. I got the MC-30s from an Audiogon seller in Texas. There is significant difference in the details of reproduction between the Scott and the McIntosh. They are in different leagues, in both design intent and cost. The preamp is the Paragon model 12 in my signature. The Scott is still up for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted June 12, 2004 Author Share Posted June 12, 2004 ---------------- On 6/12/2004 4:06:04 PM Kudret wrote: Congratulations, Ben. I've been watching MC-30s on eBay recently and the prices seem to be going up. Which pair did you pick up? If it's the one that sold for 1550, they really looked nice. Kudret ---------------- Crossed posts! Cosmetically, mine could use some work. There's minor issues just about everywhere you look, but they're all minor. The McIntoch badges are intact, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 Ahhhhhh, the joy of MC-30's Are they sweet, or what? You explained the improvements much better than I could. I explained to a musician friend, though: "With my prior setup, I could see the quarter in the bottom of the pool. Now, I can not only tell whether it is heads or tails showing, but if it's heads, I can see the year, too! THAT'S what they mean by transparency." Now I really feel sorry for Allan.....I drilled him with questions too. And I know another forum member or two who may be taking the plunge. I haven't had too much opportunity to roll yet, but when funds allow, I plan to try a few things out before settling in on a final selection. My amps are pretty close now - every change made so far has been for the worse, not better. Primarily these are stuffed full of 50's RCA tubes with 6L6GC's as outputs, and I'm diggin' 'em pretty much as is. Sure would like to try those 350B though....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 I am so glad you guys seem to be hearing what I have been hearing all these years!! The 350B is an incredible audio tube and worth the money considering a fresh quad might well last FOREVER in a pair of MC-30s! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Ben, Great to hear all your research, time and $ spent has come to a happy ending ! Enjoy the clean unfettered power mono blocks afford ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dflip Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I personally need to thank Raptorman for asking Ben if he got the amps in Toronto. It set me searching Audiogon for the MCC-30's and I quickly found them. Two emails and I had arranged a listening session a short 30 minute drive from my house. They are now in my possession for a reasonable price and I did not have to pay shipping or customs either. It definitely works for me. There were a couple of paint chips on the transformers as well as a couple of small scratches. The chrome is in really good shape. The lettering is perfect. One of the preamp connectors should probably be replaced as it does not grip the RCA connector very securely. For $1200 US the monoblocks seemed like a very good deal. I also need to thank Allan, Ben and Wolfram who I sent several messages to in order to get their opinions and recommendations. It is amazing that in several hours I had responses back from Germany, California and the other side of Lake Ontario. Their recommendations convinced me to ask for an audition and I bought the amps on the spot. Craig and Erik have also responded to many questions in the last two months regarding amps that were part of my search. I have already set the speakers on the 4 ohm post as per Acro's recommendation and substituted in a 5751 for the first 12AX7 and I'm on the lookout for some 12BZ7's. After that I need to replace the Sovtek 6L6WXT output tubes with either KT66's or 350B's. I think money will determine which way I go. First impression, great midrange with good bass. I can definitely see why Allan likes these amps, given the amount of jazz he listens to. They do have a magic as I have quickly sampled some Diana Krall and Molly Johnson and just sat back and closed my eyes. I have not tried any rock yet, although the amps seem to reveal the quality of the recordings. I'm sure in another week I will get a great chance to set back one night and listen to them for three or four hours. For all the sniping that goes on here and one-upsmanship, this place is a wealth of information. I never would have considered a tube setup without the constant preachings/suggestions/comments from Kelly, nor bought the LK-72 from Craig, the Mapletree Audio Ultra 4 SE preamp or the McIntosh MC-30's without the advice and comments from members of this forum who are still here and those who have left for a while or longer. Searching through all the past posts, copying text into a Word document, editing out the excess, keeping the relevent information, printing it out and reading it before I went to sleep allowed me to get a feel for what I was buying. The vast majority of that information came from the people who frequent this website. Biggest turnoff here is the trolling for the sake of trolling. Please do not feed these critters. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Glad to know there's another convert to the ways of McIntosh (and I was thrilled with the SS MC7200, MC2100, and my favorite, the MC250). I've only heard the tube MC275 driving Klipschorns, and thought that was a revelation in sound (it still is). But I'd certainly love to audition a pair of fully functioning MC30s with the 350Bs thrown in...How awesome would that be? Enjoy your tube Macs. Maybe someday I will too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Don, I couldn't agree more: this place can be/is a source of great information and there is really no need to spoil it with less than stellar posts (to put it diplomatically ). Anyway, enjoy your amps, they are certainly worth owning. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J M O N Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Wolfram: How would you compare youre MC30's to your Transcendent Sound amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 So, you think MC-30's sound good? Wait until you hear a nice pair of Dynaco Mark III's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctiger2 Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 The 30's sound as good as they look. Congrats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dflip Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Wolfram: How would you compare youre MC30's to your Transcendent Sound amp? Look at the following thread: McIntosh and Eico revisited (edit)(the link did not work, so instead I posted the text) Revisiting gear which has not received the attention it might deserve can also turn into a reminder that a bit of modesty is always useful in life. But no philosophising here just a quick review of recent findings: For a while I had been listening to my Heresy/Eico combo less and less. Somehow the sound was less smooth and organic as I had remembered, or was my memory incorrect, had the living room set-up always been smoother? Pure chance made me touch the chassis while the amp was connected to the step down transformer (on), I believe the amp itself was off. What was that? It felt like some kind of current, oh dear, what was wrong here, a faulty part, yet another visit to the tech? Suddenly I remembered my very first serious ss amp. Whenever it was plugged into the wall wrongly (i.e. ignoring polarity), I only had to touch the chassis to find the right direction for the plug. I tried the same thing with the Eico and . Bingo! here it was, the silkiness, the musicality I had remembered.no, in a sense one doesnt need more than such an amp.unless one of the new micro-subs SVS is going to offer later that year. Next: McIntosh. I have already mentioned that much as I like the tuner section of the MX110, I am less convinced by its line section. But hey, we are in tube land, so why not some tube rolling? Indeed, I changed Vs 15,16,17,8. Did it make a difference? You bet, not only did the unit retain its McIntosh tone, suddenly it was (obviously) less tired with extension at frequency ends which I no longer find limiting. So before you ditch your vintage gear, make sure the tubes you are using are still fine. Finally the MC30s. With the silent Transcendent SE OTL in the house, I found the 30s simply too noisy, there was a persistent hum which, though not interfering when music was playing unless in very soft passages, sounded wrong. Okay, off they went to my local tech. A few days later the news: in each amp one cap was faulty and one of the remaining was corrected incorrectly. I collected the amps last night.silent at last. Sound? Mhhhhhhhh certainly different to before more open, less romantic, less tubey, but somehow not as convincing as the SE OTL. I mean things sounded not bad, but somehow I was looking for more magic or less of an amp playing, and more for the real thing. Final moves: Some month ago I was so curious that I actually got myself..shall I admit it?. a quad of cryogenically treated Chinese KT66. I had used them, liked their big soundstage, but found their mids a disappointment. Okay, I remembered Guys warning, but I had used them before for about a week and the amp was certainly not running any warmer than with those 6L6. So in they went. I am sure that real GEC KT66 will be a different animal again, but I had these and my budget simply rules out those NOS tubes. Anyway, even those Chinese tubes played ever so much more convincingly than the RCA 6L6. Much bigger soundstage; sound: bold, open, fast. So the new week leaves me with a rejuvenated McIntosh system which is certainly worth the money I had to invest in order to get everything to Germany. Is it better than the SE OTL? Its different, but equally valid. It seems to project the music with a different flavour, the SE OTL might be more honest, but Id like to leave judgement until the GG arrives. After all there is something in the concept of synergy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Jmon, due to Don's link (though it doesn't seem to be working on my computer) I rearead what I had written and it still holds true: with those KT66 in place the MC30s are excellent as well. You can tell they are more powerful (without being coarse) than the SE-OTL (and their mid-smoothness is somehow different), but there is some SET liquidity in the sound of the Transcendent Sound amp which makes it very appealing (at least to my ears! ... and with my listening conditions those 1.5 watts are not deficient in any way). Next time the MC30s get their turn, I will try Mullards in place of the RCA Cleartop 12AU7....that might add yet another flavour to those amps. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Nothing personal, but I think you will find other monos to sound much better than the Macs. Mcintosh product are OK from a nostalgic and collectors point of view. Besides that, and from strcitly a performance staindpoint, forget it. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Ben, I found the opposite to be true when comparing 2 different MC240s to my 299B. The detail on the scott was significantly better than the macs which is why I sold them. I must admit these are the only macs I've ever heard though. Never heard MC30s. Glad you are enjoying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 A very sensible response re: Mac vs. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 It just goes to show how different our ears really are. Some favor the Macs, while others choose Scotts and Dynacos. We may not always agree, but to my ears, the Macs still win hands down. Just my 2 cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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