Upgrading from Heresy to LaScala

[Spider]

Hi all,

I am going to look at some LaScalas which were used for a band (not rock). How do I evaluate? I didn't know there was an industrial model made. Any shortcomings in sound ompared to my '84 Heresys? Would I be better off with one of the other Klipsch? I play classical and country. Thanks in advance.

[Daddy Dee]

Spider,

There are industrial versions of the La Scala. Some of them have the HF in a sep section. You'll just want to give them a listen to make sure all the drivers are working o.k. particularly the tweeters. If they sound o.k. they are almost certainly fine.

The woofer for the industrial LaScala will handle more power than the standard. It is often posted that this is a compromise that yields somewhat less bass.

Sometimes people will take a pair of Scalas and put pro sound corners and carpet on them.

As to sound, La Scalas have a bigger sound than Heresy's. But you are probably getting 85% of a La Scala in the Heresy already.

It would be worthy of consideration to think about adding a nice sub to your system. Many LaScala owners still think they need a sub with LaScalas. Just part of the nature of that beast where the bass rolls off. I find that to be somewhat of a disappointment considering the cost of a LaScala. The price for really nice La Scala's is pretty close to Khorn price territory and on a good day overlaps somewhat.

[TBrennan]

spider---Personally I find the LS rather raucus and "earwirey", mainly due to it's limited bass response. The Heresey has somewhat better tonal balance than the LS IMO.

However the LS will certainly play louder, that's for damn sure. Perhaps a good sub would improve the LS by adding some much needed bass to the tonal balance.

That's what I think. But you gotta listen for yourself. We often tolerate different compromises in speaker design, a flaw one fella can live with will drive another fella crazy. The LS has some strong virtues, whether it's vices overweigh them can only be decided by you.

[Daddy Dee]

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On 6/23/2004 9:25:32 AM TBrennan wrote:

spider---Personally I find the LS rather raucus and "earwirey", mainly due to it's limited bass response. The Heresey has somewhat better tonal balance than the LS IMO.

However the LS will certainly play louder, that's for damn sure. Perhaps a good sub would improve the LS by adding some much needed bass to the tonal balance.

That's what I think. But you gotta listen for yourself. We often tolerate different compromises in speaker design, a flaw one fella can live with will drive another fella crazy. The LS has some strong virtues, whether it's vices overweigh them can only be decided by you.

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Tom,

Well said. The trade-offs and the relative value of what is gained and what is lost is subjective indeed.

One of the things about this forum that has been quite interesting have been the contributions from HDBRBuilder and others who can articulate how the design reflected PWK's intended application for the particular speaker. Somehow that has helped me make sense of the Heritage lineup.

[Parrot]

Spider,

Like Daddy said, make sure to check that the tweeters aren't blown. With the horn-loaded bass of the La Scala, you'll notice a big difference in the sound as compared to the Heresy.

Would you be better off with a different Klipsch speaker? You didn't give us enough info on your circumstances. The ultimate speaker in the right surroundings is the Klipschorn, but that wouldn't be a good choice in an efficiency apartment, say.

[Tom Mobley]

I have both Heresy's and LaScalas. I personally don't think the H are 85% of the LS, more like 40-50%. The LS go much lower than the H and the bass is horn-loaded, a different sound altogether, IMHO. I think you would be amazed at a side-by-side comparison. My particular pair of LS go down to 45Hz before dropping off, I don't think there's a lot of information below there in normal music, maybe in synth pop or movies. Industrial LS have a woofer than gives up a little low-end response for better durability in pro-sound situations but of a guy wanted to get to the normal LS config the regular K-33 woofs are cheap from Klipsch. A pair od Al K's or Randy's crossovers is a nice upgrade too.

I'd encourage you get them and try them stock for awhile. If you decide you don't like them you can sell them again without losing anytthing unless you pay too much.

To me, they're in a whole different category from H's, I don't think you'll be disappointed at all.

Buying industrial models means you'll wamt to check that all the drivers are good, it's not real unusual to find blown stuff if they've really been abused. You can use any problems as a club to beat the price down, then buy the replacements here or on ebay for uch less than what Klipsch charges.

Good luck, I think you'll be happy.

{EDIT}: Randys? whozzat? I meant Bob Crites, BEC here on the forum.

[toomanyspeakers]

Since I have just upgraded from Heresys to Lascalas I can tell you that the Heresys were great the Lascalas are more of a good thing. Sometimes I feel that the bass is missing until I hear music with good clean acustic bass and it is super clean and realistic. There also good with movies and various types of music.

[milton10]

Tom,

How will the LS compare to the Heresy if you take a good subwoofer into account? You are comparing the LS to the Heresy without a subwoofer, correct?

I have Heresy's, but am considering an upgrade for my fronts at some point. I currently run the Heresy's with a Sunfire Super Junior sub, and the sub integrates seamlessly with the Heresy's starting at about 75 Hz (where the Heresy's true "roll off" point seems to start). My bass response is smooth and solid (with no bumps or drops) all the way down to about 25 Hz.

Will I notice much difference with the LS with the same sub? Or will we hit diminishing returns?

Milton

[Tom Mobley]

I haven't any experience with subs. I see comments here on the board regularly that mention that most subs have trouble integrating well with the horn loaded bass of the larger Heritage models. Seems the horn loaded bass is faster, tighter, tauter, along that line. However the Sunfire stuff seems to pretty well regarded everywhere, so you might be able to do it. I see comments that guys that have larger Heritage models and subs end up using the subs mostly with movies, so if yours is a HT setup you may want to retain your sub. Be aware that LS will be *much* louder at the same volume knob setting, so this enters in too.

Using crude testing my LS are good to 45Hz, have some audible stuff in the high 30's. They do have new K-33's and DIY ALK crossovers, so they're in pretty good shape.

Others may differ, but that's my take on the situation.

{EDIT} I assumed you were asking me, but I see that Tom Brennan also replied above. If your question was aimed at him, feel free to ignore my stuff.

[Ray Garrison]

Milton10 -

The topic of subwoofers with La Scalas / Belles is something of a polarizing issue. Lots of folks here think you simply can't get a sub to integrate correctly with the horn loaded bass, at least not when talking about the more commonly available subs, and that the stand alone bass response is not missing all that much. Others feel that without a sub, the La Scala and Belle are so lacking in the bass department as to not merit the description "full range speaker".

I had an REL Storm I used with my La Scalas, and I thought the match worked great. I also felt the La Scalas sub-less were incapable of playing the music I enjoy the way I like to hear it.

[greg928gts]

I have to agree that Heresy's are only about 50% of the La Scalas, not 85%. There is a very big difference between the Heresy and the LS. You'll love the LS's for classical music, they have a big, airy, open sound to them. LS's can really fill a room, much like the Khorns but with less low frequency extension.

Always open the bass bins of La Scalas to check the woofers before buying them. Often times the woofers have been replaced.

Greg

[milton10]

Thanks Ray and Tom (yes, I was refering to you Mr. Mobley),

Well, this puts a different twist on what I was expecting to hear. I guess I will have to audition the LS (or Klipschorns) if I upgrade my Heresy's.

I will say this though (athough it is an a priori argument), if there is a sub that could possibly keep up with a horn loaded woofer, it would be one of the Sunfire subs. I have listened to PLENTY of subs in my life, and I have never heard one that is as fast and tight as these units. I understand what you mean about taught, tight performance in bass, and most subs don't reproduce that way. In fact, most subs sound way too slow (muddy?) for my tastes.

Now you have my interset really perked up.....

[Spider]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the suggestions and insights. Since the original posting, I also followed up on a pair of Cornwalls mentioned a few days BUT I know nothing about any of the Klipsch speakers and as you all know, it is difficult to audition these "treasures". Any further comments re the characteristics of the Cornwalls would be appreciated (compared to the Heresys and La Scalas). Again, many thanks.

[TBrennan]

Spider---I think the Cornwall is superior to both the Heresey and LaScala (and for what it's worth I've owned all three types).

The CW has deeper bass and thus a more natural and robust tonal balance than the either Heresey or LS. IMO except for the Khorn itself the CW is the most desirable Klipsch speaker.

[garymd]

I have 2 pairs of cornwalls and 1 pair of heresys. The advantage of corns is no need for a sub. It's a big, live sounding speaker. If you like the heresy, the cornwall is its big brother. More then just stronger bass though. Bigger, better overall sound. More open and alive and yes, much better bass.

Lascalas and Belles are great too. Horn loaded bass is a different sound altogether.

[Parrot]

Spider,

You'll have to decide for yourself by auditioning because the Cornwall does not sound like the La Scala. Myself, I prefer the La Scala or Belle Klipsch over the Cornwall. Do you have the room and the desire for the Klipschorn? If you are planning to buy used, the difference in price isn't great.

[J.4knee]

I currently have both La Scala and Heresy II's, and have spent quite a bit of time listening to Cornwalls as well. I would have to chime in on the side of the La Scala. The bass is substantial and very accurate and effortless. They are not harsh, and they possess 2/3 of the Klipschorn driver/horn components. As for the Heresy being 85% of the La Scala that not even close to being true. The La Scala may have had a different intent on its original design, but its performance soon expanded its role. The Cornwalls do dig deeper but at a cost in efficiency and they posses more inter-modulation distortion by way of more cone movement to produce their bass. To me their bass has a warmed over cone sound so I prefer the sound of the La Scala bass. The midrange on the La Scala is superior to that of the Cornwall IMO but there are those who do not feel that way. I believe you should, if possible, audition both the Cornwall and La Scala and see which one is more to your liking. If your are asking for a recommendation I would say La Scala hands down but that is a decision you need to make, both the Cornwall and La Scala are excellent speakers.

[BEC]

I have owned all three of the speakers being discussed here. I have listened to Heresy and Cornwall side by side, no contest the Cornwall wins. I have also listened to the Cornwall and Lascala side by side, no contest, the Lascala wins. All excellent speakers though. If you settle on the Cornwall, also consider the Chorus. Almost the same sound as the Cornwall in my opinion. When I tried the Cornwall I and Chorus I side by side, I could not pick a winner. Or, perhaps I should say either is a winner.

Bob

[Deang]

"The ultimate speaker in the right surroundings is the Klipschorn..."

Paul, I guess my demo didn't convince you?

[DLUngurait]

Spyder or Milton10,

I see you are both in Florida...although on the other coast (I'm in Ft. Lauderdale). I have a pair of '86 LaScalas (black w/ grille cloth on the HF section) that I want to sell or trade for some smaller footprint Klipsch models. These speakers are working perfectly but one of them has a scrape on the outside front edge of the bass horn and both could benefit from a good refinish. I recently moved into a townhouse and I just can't make the LaScalas fit...it's breaking my heart! Feel free to email me at david@cineworks.com if you have any interest.

I have a buddy who has Heresies...they are very nice speakers indeed...but LaScalas will punch you in the face! Aside from the advantage of being 3 way fully horn loaded, the midrange squawker in the LaScala is far superior (IMHO) than that of the Heresy. Unfortunately, I have never had the pleasure of listening to a Cornwall so I can't offer an opinion.

Good Luck on your qwest!

Dave