oiling walnuts

[hammertop]

Ok! Being liisted as a "newbie" I've had my Corns for 29+ years young (WO's) and just now thinking about re-oiling. Wow, the past forums seem to be refinish or total do over. As in life we all get banged around somewhat, a nick here, scratch there, inevitable. General touch up is like way important to me!

The question: I have always used a good grade paste wax. Just how far do I have to go before re-BLO (boiled linseed oil)?

The plan: Latex putty the small ouches, triple 000 steel them, use a low grade stripper, then start the linseed process. All the years I've been waxing, will the oil (in auto body terms) cause and or create fisheyes?

[radiob]

Dont mess with BLO, it is simply out dated, smelly, slow drying, garbage that will stain if you set anything on your speakers. If you want a product to wipe on wipe off then look into tounge oil from minwax or old masters, apply 3-4 coats with a 0000 steel wool sanding before the last coat.

[Marvel]

RadioB is in the minority here, and in the minority of almost all professional woodworking craftsmen. BLO is still one of the best finishes/treatments you can use on your Corns. Watco and others are variations on a theme, containing various amounts of linseed oil and other ingredients. Tung oil doesn't penetrate as much, and makes a harder finish than BLO. But scratches also show up more. BLO penetrates the wood and provides more long term protection and keeps the wood from drying out.

It doesn't require a total redo of your Corns to clean them up.

Marvel

[edwinr]

My Klipschorns are oiled walnut. I thought about refinishing them with one of those tung oil type finishes. But I was told the same thing, boiled linseed oil or a similar commercial variation - lasts longer and less sceptible to scratches etc. Also more importantly, easier to apply for non experts like myself.

[HDBRbuilder]

Almost all the true furniture craftsmen around today still predominantly use BLO to obtain a classic oil finish. It is NOT "outdated garbage"...it is a classic finish that has withstood the test of time for centuries. What you use is up to you, but for an oiled finish, BLO is hard to beat in the long run. It is inexpensive and easy to apply properly.

[edwinr]

Hey, HDBRbuilder! You're still here. Thank God!

[radiob]

Outdated garbage! Show me the MSDS Sheet on BLO, and Ill explain why.

[ZAKO]

Boiled linseed oil is still the preferred finish for high quality patina . I use Watco danish oil. On both counts dont let oil set for more than 10 minutes on surface . Then wipe dry to a smooth sheen.

[edwardre]

Watco here as well.....I could be wrong, but it seems a bit more 'refined' than straight BLO....not so 'mucky'?

And remember, steel anything on speakers should be a last resort only. Those little hairs are insidious......they WILL find their way to your VC.......

[ben.]

----------------

On 8/24/2004 8:57:49 AM radiob wrote:

Outdated garbage! Show me the MSDS Sheet on BLO, and Ill explain why.----------------

Whoops-posted wrong one before. Here you go.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Material Safety Data Sheet

SECTION I - Material Identity

SECTION II - Manufacturer's Information

SECTION III - Physical/Chemical Characteristics

SECTION IV - Fire and Explosion Hazard Data

SECTION V - Reactivity Data

SECTION VI - Health Hazard Data

SECTION VII - Precautions for Safe Handling and Use

SECTION VIII - Control Measures

SECTION IX - Label Data

SECTION X - Transportation Data

SECTION XI - Site Specific/Reporting Information

SECTION XII - Ingredients/Identity Information

SECTION I - Material Identity

Item Name

Part Number/Trade Name

BOILED LINSEED OIL

National Stock Number

8010001523245

CAGE Code

0A9L8

Part Number Indicator

A

MSDS Number

190008

HAZ Code

B

SECTION II - Manufacturer's Information

Manufacturer Name

HOC INDUSTRIES INC (HOME OIL)

P.O. Box

2609

Street

3511 <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />N OHIO

City

WICHITA

State

KS

Country

US

Zip Code

67201-2609

Emergency Phone

800-424-6300 CHEMTREC

Information Phone

316-838-4663

MSDS Preparer's Information

Date MSDS Prepared/Revised

10SEP97

Active Indicator

Y

Alternate Vendors

SECTION III - Physical/Chemical Characteristics

NRC License Number

NR

Net Propellant Weight (Ammo)

NR

Appearance/Odor

CLEAR LIQUID, LOW ODOR

Boiling Point

NR

Melting Point

NR

Vapor Pressure

NR

Vapor Density

NR

Specific Gravity

0.93

Decomposition Temperature

NR

Evaporation Rate

NR

Solubility in Water

NEGLIGIBLE

Percent Volatiles by Volume

0

Chemical pH

NA

Corrosion Rate

NR

Container Pressure Code

1

Temperature Code

4

Product State Code

L

SECTION IV - Fire and Explosion Hazard Data

Flash Point

250

Flash Point Method

TCC

Lower Explosion Limit

NR

Upper Explosion Limit

NR

Extinguishing Media

WATER, CARBON DIOXIDE, AND POSSIBLY ACROLEIN

Special Fire Fighting Procedures

EVACUATE AREA OF ALL UNNECESSARY PERSONNEL. SHUT OFF SOURCE, IF POSSIBLE. WATER FOG OR SPRAY SHOULD BE USED TO KEEP FIRE-EXPOSED FIRES. EVACUATE AREA OF ALL UNNECESSARY PERSONNEL. SHUT OFF SOURCE IR POSSIBLE. WATER FOG OR SPRAY SHOULD BE USED TO KEEP FIRE EXPOSED CONTAINERS AND EQUIPMENT COOL. DO NOT SPRAY WATER DIRECTLY ON FIRE. PRODUCT WILL FLOAT AND COULD BE REIGNITED ON SURFACE OF WATER. FIRE FIGHTERS SHOULD WEAR SCBA TO PREVENT INHALATION OF SMOKE OR VAPORS

Unusual Fire/Explosion Hazards

BOILED LINSEED OIL WILL OXIDIZE AND CAN CAUSE SPONTANEOUS COMBUSTION. AVOID SPONTANEOUS COMBUSTION OF CONTAMINATED RAGS OR OTHER IGNITIBLE ABSORBENT MATERIAL BY IMMERSING IN WATER IMMEDIATELY

SECTION V - Reactivity Data

Stability

YES

Stability Conditions to Avoid

NR

Materials to Avoid

NR

Hazardous Decomposition Products

NR

Hazardous Polymerization

NO

Polymerization Conditions to Avoid

DOES NOT OCCUR

SECTION VI - Health Hazard Data

Route of Entry: Skin

YES

Route of Entry: Ingestion

YES

Route of Entry: Inhalation

YES

Health Hazards - Acute and Chronic

AVOID PROLONGED OR WIDESPREAD SKIN CONTACT. MAY CAUSE A PERSISTENT IRRITATION OR DERMITITIS. AVOID PROLONGED REPEATED INHAL OF HEATED VAPORS OR SPRAY MISTS MAY IRRITATE STOMACH AND INTESTINES. IF SWALLOWED MAY BE ASPIRATED INTO LUNGS RESULTING IN CHEMICAL PNEUMONITIS

Carcinogenity: NTP

NR

Carcinogenity: IARC

NR

Carcinogenity: OSHA

NR

Explanation of Carcinogenity

NONE

Symptoms of Overexposure

SAME AS ABOVE

Medical Cond. Aggrevated by Exposure

NR

Emergency/First Aid Procedures

MOVE TO FRESH AIR. APPLY ARTIFICAL RESPIRATION IF NECESSARY. CALL PHYSICAN IMMEDIATELY. WASH WITH MILD SOAP / WATER. WASH WITH WATER FOR 5-10 MINUTES. IF EYE IRRITAITON PERSISTS, GET IMMEDIATE MEDICAL ATTENTION

SECTION VII - Precautions for Safe Handling and Use

Steps if Material Released/Spilled

ELIMINATE ALL IGNITION SOURCES INCLUDING INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES AND POWER TOOLS. VENTILATE AREA. AVOID BREATHING VAPOR. USE SUPPLIED AIR MASK FOR LARGE SPILLS OR IN CONFINED AREA. CONTAIN SPILL. REMOVE WITH INERT ABSORBENT. AVOID CONTACT WITH EYES. AVOID ALLOWING PRODUCT FROM ENTERING STREAMS OR SEWERS

Neutralizing Agent

NR

Waste Disposal Method

INCINERATE OR PLACE RCRA PERMITTED WASTE MANAGEMENT FACILITY OBSERVING LOCAL, STATE AND FEDERAL

Handling and Storage Precautions

TRANSPORT, HANDLE AND STORE IN ACCORDANCE WITH 29 CFR (1910.106) AND APPLICABLE DOT REGULATIONS. GROUND AND ELECTRICALLY INTERCONNECT CONTAINERS FOR TRANSFER

Other Precautions

NR

SECTION VIII - Control Measures

Respiratory Protection

MAY BE REQUIRED IF MATERIAL IS USED IN POORLY VENTILATED AREAS OR IF MATERIAL IS SPRAYED OR HEATED

Ventilation

GENERAL RECOMMENDED. LOCAL VENTILATION MAY BE REQUIRED IF MATERIAL IS SPRAYED OR HEATED

Protective Gloves

NEOPRENE RUBBER GLOVES

Eye Protection

CHEM TYPE GOGGLES

Other Protective Equipment

EYE WASH STATIONS

Work Hygenic Practices

WASH HANDS PRIOR TO EATING OR SMOKING

Supplemental Health/Safety Data

NR

SECTION IX - Label Data

Protect Eye

YES

Protect Skin

YES

Protect Respiratory

YES

Chronic Indicator

NO

Contact Code

SLIGHT

Fire Code

UNKNOWN

Health Code

UNKNOWN

React Code

UNKNOWN

Specific Hazard and Precaution

NO TARGET ORGANS LISTED FOR CHRONIC EXPOSURES

SECTION X - Transportation Data

Container Quantity

1

Unit of Measure

GL

SECTION XI - Site Specific/Reporting Information

Volatile Organic Compounds (P/G)

0

Volatile Organic Compounds (G/L)

0

SECTION XII - Ingredients/Identity Information

Ingredient #

01

Ingredient Name

BOILED LINSEED OIL

Proprietary

NO

Percent

100

[iwillwalk]

klipsch has said watco never used it becuse a long time ago someone posted that they use scotts liquid gold.so bought it and use it all the time & it makes my walnut shine

[Gilbert]

I'm with Marvel, Bclark and especially HDBRbuilder, ....thank you Bclark for the spec sheet. Marvel obviously knows his tung oil also, as I have read quite a bit about it when I was refinishing some furniture, many moons ago. Tung oil does provide a durable ware surface, very hard in fact. I've used it on many different tables tops and book shelves.

But I still would like to hear radiob's reason(s) for disagreement. I ask this question in my previous post regarding what a pain in arse it was refinishing Khorns, and radiob did not provide the answer he said he would, but instead insulted me.

Bclark was kind enough to get the literature you requested, now do the curtious thing and explain why you have such a negative opinion on BLO. Please let me know, I want to hear your opinion, wrong or right, doesn't matter. I want to hear your (or possibly someone elses) logic.

[ben.]

----------------

On 8/24/2004 5:36:11 AM radiob wrote:

Dont mess with BLO, it is simply out dated, smelly, slow drying, garbage that will stain if you set anything on your speakers. If you want a product to wipe on wipe off then look into tounge oil from minwax or old masters, apply 3-4 coats with a 0000 steel wool sanding before the last coat.

----------------

You'd think a Master Furniture Refinisher, PhD. would read the directions on the bottle of Tung Oil and steel wool after each coat has dried. You'd think...

[Good2BHome]

My 2 cents:

As I remember one HDBRs past posts, he said the factory used BLO with some walnut stain added to it. This makes them look a little darker than BLO alone.

I believe this to be very accurate since I own a CWL (lacquer) Cornwall pair and a CWO (oil) pair. On the pair with the Lacquer finish the walnut is definitely lighter.

The point is, if you strip/sand (which I endorse ONLY if you know what you are doing) your speakers and then use a clear poly formulation they will come out lighter than what they were with a factory BLO finish.

This is not wrong if that is what you wanted, you just need to know how to accomplish what you want

Mike

[radiob]

Ok, Now read the msds sheet, you have proved why not to use BLO. If you ever use tounge oil, you would find out that it takes 2-3 coats over virgin wood before there is enough mil to steel wool before your final gloss coat.

[Colin]

From a previous post: In the northern US, the low humidity of cold winters dries out wood, ruining the sheen and eventually cracking it. Old steam and hot water radiators contribute to the problem, sweating out what little moisture there is in the air with condensation. Most commonly recommended is a quarterly rubdown with furniture oil to nourish the wood; NOT furniture polish to merely dust it. In the southern US, high temperatures and high humidity rate - both over 90, Fahrenheit and percent - combine to create scalding heat indexes over 100. Sensitive wood designs are protected with an annual rubdown of lemon or tung furniture oil.

I have been using Old English lemon oil for years, but the bottle ran low. I also used a little of Formbys Lemon Oil, which seems like Old English. I oiled my classic Klipsch corner Khorns with Formbys Tung Oil and was surprised at the difference!

Tung oil is a golden brown oil extracted from seeds of tung trees and used as a drying agent in varnishes, paints and waterproofing. It is also called Chinawood oil. Tung oil makes a durable matte finish. Brush or wipe tung oil into the wood in thin coats. The Tung oil is thicker than lemon oil. It is an amber blend of molasses and old fashioned syrup. Stickier than syrup too, it doesnt simply rinse off, but needs soap. It smells like dark nut oils blended with a hint of turpentine, paint thinner, varnish or something. It coats the wood and fills in the scratches. It is quite nice for old horns. It gives the walnut a darker, glossier, warmer appeal. Looks beautiful, but goes on rich and dark. Tung Oil takes a day to dry, especially when applied so thickly that it fills the scratches.

It is classed as a drying oil along with linseed, poppy seed, safflower seed, walnut, soybean, oiticica and a few other oils. Until this century, China was the main source for the oil. It comes from the seed of Aleurites fordii and Aleurites montana, deciduous trees susceptible to frost damage. This vulnerability restricts tung trees to China and South America. It is said to have been introduced to the West by Marco Polo. Recently, tung oil gained favor over linseed oil for furniture finishing because dries faster and does not darken as much with age.

Tung oil is more durable than lacquer and is impervious to water stains. As mentioned before, minor scratches are easily repaired. It's readily available and an ideal finish for butch block tops in kitchens, as well as wooden salad bowls and other wooden food preparation surfaces. Furniture in areas of high use (or abuse) could also benefit from a tung oil finish.

Tung oils are usually applied in a wipe-on wipe-off method with a short drying time in between. After the wipe off and when the coat has dried completely, # 0000 steel wool removes small surface irregularities, and the oiling process is repeated. Depending on the look, you'll apply anywhere from 3 to 6 coats in this manner. I only applied one coat and it looks fine to me. However, it does seem to seal the wood more than simple Lemon Oil furniture polish. I wont try the BLO over the Tung Oil of course. IF I had to do it over again, I would try the BLO first.

Although marketed for teak furniture, I will save the lighter Lemon Oil for my office. The Lemon Oil should also be fine for the black wood entertainment center or modern black loudspeakers.

Posted: 5/31/2004

HDBRbuilder said: Once you use tung oil, you no longer will use Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO), because tung oil is a finish in and of itself. BLO is what is used on the factory oil finishes to replenish the wood. There is a big difference in tung oil and what is used for the factory oil finishes. Tung oil is more akin to a varnish type of finish, and once applied it is not supposed to be re-oiled at all. Tung oil is actually supposed to be applied to clean surfaces with no more than a stain already

applied to them.

A word to the wise here: There is a possibility of tung oil finishes appearing to adhere well initially to a previously applied BLO-based finish, but over time the tung oil finish MAY loosen from the surface as the BLO weeps out of the wood grain...the same goes for applications of lacquers or urethanes and such to previously-applied hand-rubbed oil finishes using BLO as the base. In order to ensure tung oil finish adherence to surfaces with previously-applied-BLO based

finishes, it is WISE to thoroughly clean the BLO finish from the wood using acetone or something of that nature, BEFORE using the tung oil finish.

Remember, just because something is labeled an "OIL" finish does NOT mean it is completely compatible with other types of oil finishes previously used on wood surfaces.

[ben.]

----------------

On 8/24/2004 7:42:16 PM radiob wrote:

Ok, Now read the msds sheet, you have proved why not to use BLO. If you ever use tounge oil, you would find out that it takes 2-3 coats over virgin wood before there is enough mil to steel wool before your final gloss coat.----------------

You are either incredibly lazy or full of it. I remain uncertain which; but it is clear that you are, in the words of the immortal Tom Brennan, a man without a stomach.

It's spelled Tung, and please enlighten we poor mistaken ingorami exactly why Boiled Linseed Oil is the devil's liquor.

[Gilbert]

bclark, the guy obviously doesn't know his thumb from his dick. He request specific literature and then craps out.

Colin:

I have 4 pair of heritage in WO. 2 from the 60's and 2 from the 80's. In each case/decade, I have one pair that is distinctly lighter than the other. Also, tung oil is not impervious to water stains. I know from experience. I is highly resistant, but not impervious.

[Good2BHome]

----------------

On 8/24/2004 7:48:50 PM bclarke421 wrote:

...It's spelled Tung, and please enlighten we poor mistaken ingorami exactly

why

Boiled Linseed Oil is the devil's liquor.

----------------

Resist....Resist....Resist...Resist!!!

I just can't. I don't care about the argument.

But the word is spelt "ignorami"

Heat of the argument I guess.

[edwinr]

Thanks, Colin for a great post. Very interesting reading.

Edwin.