garymd Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Not much more to say about Dean's crossovers that hasn't been said already but........ I replaced my stock "AA" crossovers in my '76 Khorns with a pair of auricapped "A"s built by Dean last week. The first thing I (and Larry Clare who helped out with the install) noticed was the immediate elimination of an unwanted midrange peak. The top end smoothed out and sound was more balanced with greater detail from top to bottom. Dean warned me that they needed about 20 hours to break in. Sure enough, about 20 hours of listening later, they just seemed to bloom. The bass tightened even more and the clarity and soundstage really opened up. Did I mention that they're beautiful pieces of work? Laid out on hand rubbed cedar boards with felt feet that just sit in the upper bin. No screws needed. Shame they're not visible. You really don't know what 28 years can do to your crossovers until you replace them. Dean does top notch work and it's a relatively inexpensive upgrade and definitely worthwhile. I hear he does work on the Reference line also. Thanks again Deano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Ya when it comes to " hand rubbing " i hear deans a real pro Besides that issue , good to hear your happy with the crossover upgrade Did you get your funds from paypal ? i sent them late last night , let me know if there was any problem . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted August 27, 2004 Author Share Posted August 27, 2004 I just checked. No problem Dale. Thanks a lot. I heard that about Dean too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiob Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 What is dean doing to the crossovers? How is he testing his results? Does he do anything for the chorus2? I recently purchased a set of VMPS ST RSE speakers from Brian Chenney of VMPS,he modified my crossovers in them, it took him 3 weeks of listenig and tweaking in his listening room. Does dean own or have access to speakers to test his crossovers in? Im interested in his crossovers because of all of your great praise, but would like to know if there proven for my speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dflip Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 I might be wrong, but Dean's crossovers mostly involve using higher quality parts. The caps in particular are either Auricap or Theta for polyprops, or Jensen PIO. These are an improvement upon either early version Klipsch caps or for a lot of manufacturers they are a vast improvement. The original caps in nonKlipsch speakers can be very small and do benefit from upgrading. Inductors can also be upgraded to a heavier gauge wire which produces better bass. Depending on the model of speaker, this may or may not be a benefit, it depends on the quality of the original parts. Many inductors from other speaker companies value or mid lines can be very small and wimp-like. He also uses better quality wire between the parts and mounts the parts on hand rubbed cedar (looks nice). In other words, most parts are upgraded and this produces a noticable difference in sound quality. It is a good upgrade and certainly cheaper than a new amp or preamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 "Brian Chenney of VMPS, he modified my crossovers in them, it took him 3 weeks of listening and tweaking in his listening room." I can see taking each model out of the line and working it to perfection -- and then proceeding forward and implementing the mod in each speaker, but I seriously doubt he spent three weeks just on your pair. If he told you that then I think he fed you a line of bull. The only thing I measure is the capacitance of the caps I use to make sure they are within tolerance. Auricaps advertise at +- 10%, but they always come in at less than 5%. The Jensens are surprisingly good as well in this regard. I DO need an L-C-R meter so I can meausure ESR, and Al has been sending me links to some decent ones on eBay -- but I just haven't had the spare cash to pick one up. However, it is on my 'must do' list. What I really want is the nifty B&K that Bob C uses. At any rate, good parts are tested before I get them, and I have yet to run across a bad part, or any complaints leading me to believe I've used any. These upgrades are a fairly straight-forward process, and there isn't any great mystery to it. Decent capacitors and resistors are replaced with very good to excellent capacitors and resistors -- that's it. The only real circuit mod I implement is the one Leo came up with on the RF-7s -- a speaker I have a great deal of experience with. Everything else gets a part for part equivalent. Now, I HAVE heard my Auricap Type As on LaScalas, and they are in fact the ones Craig uses. Those As completely buried the stock AAs that we replaced, and all reports coming in to date continue to validate the superiority of the better parts. I don't have the advantage of having every different speaker type over here, so I rely on my customers to give me detailed feedback, and I press until I get it. I've also spent countless hours of research on technical sites and the archives of forums for the subjective opinions. Needless to say, I've also relied heavily on the thoughts of Al and Bob both through email and phone conversations. Naturally, I've come to some different conclusions regarding some things, and all I can say is that some of those who have experienced the different applications agree that I have a good handle on what parts work best with these horns. Basically, I just don't accept the idea that measurements explain everything the ear/brain mechanism can detect, and for whatever reason -- things that measure near exactly the same can sound vastly different. I have some ideas about this that I have posted about in the past, and just don't want to repeat anymore. I'm not an EE, and trying to sound like one just makes me look like an idiot. Chorus IIs, $216.00 which includes return shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 "Inductors can also be upgraded to a heavier gauge wire which produces better bass." Sometimes. You need to be careful here. The gauge and length of the wire in an inductor determines the DC resistance, and this resistance is worked in mathematically with the Qts (mechanical and electrical losses) of the driver -- which determines the driver/cabinet/port alignment. Using a coil that dramatically reduces the DCR overdamps the bass. Remember, there is a difference between more bass and lower bass. I believe it's best to keep it as close as possible. Bigger isn't always "better". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 ---------------- On 8/28/2004 10:00:18 AM DeanG wrote: I HAVE heard my Auricap Type As on LaScalas, and they are in fact the ones Craig uses. Those As completely buried the stock AAs that we replaced, and all reports coming in to date continue to validate the superiority of the better parts. ---------------- Any type A's would have buried the AA. Motorcap,Auricap, Just any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Guy, I have wired my Stock Type AA as Type A the Auricap/Hovland combo beats it hands down. This same test was done on Mike's Lascala's at his house(the guy that does tuner alignments for me) He had the same impression much smoother response from top to bottom. We have also tried type A's with modern motor runs and they're just not in the same league. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 That's a very tough call Guy. I have them pretty evenly split between by those who have heard both. Really though, there shouldn't be very much difference between the two, and none at all from the tweeter down. However, going through as many old posts as I could find, a pattern developed early on -- and rarely if ever deviated: Users of SET amps, or those that listened at low to moderate levels preferred the Type A -- and solid state users, or those that tended towards higher SPL listening preferred the Type AA. It's not hard to understand why this is if you think about it. Now, the AA's that were/are in Johnnydb's LaScalas sounded very 'off' in comparison to the As we put in. It would be very difficult for me to believe that the improvement we heard from top to bottom was only because of the filter type. I understand your point though -- you just plain like the Type A better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 BTW Craig, I'm building some Jensen As for you this weekend, and they'll ship Monday. So, you'll be going from a fast, straight sound with lots of grip -- to a slow, thick, and oily one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Dean, I do like the typa A's much more than the AA's. OTOH, I haven't used my Khorns with ANY SET amps, But I have tried both oil caps and film type caps in my type A's and prefered both to the AA's. I did eventually decide that I prefered the oil caps in my type A's. I've heared my former type A'd Khorns, driven by a 200 WPC Rotel Michi amp, in a 1000 sq. feet room, and they sounded amazing. I find that the type AA too veiled and the highs not too extended (due to these diodes I guess). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Gary, Thanks for the post. I know those xovers look fabulous in Dean's pics. He seems to have a pretty good eye for photography. And certainly they'd look more impressive to the eye. On that rubbed cedar base... that is Arkansas cedar, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Really Dee, it just the photography. In person, they look awful. Those diodes don't do anything until you push a hideous amount of power into the speakers -- that, or a spike from high power amp turn on/off. They aren't in series with the tweeter, and pretty much just sit there unless called upon. If a person is running the AA with the diodes in place, and they hear severe distortion -- that's a good sign they're driving the tweeters too hard. The Type A is a true first order, 6db/octave filter, whereas the AA isn't -- having a steeper slope between the tweeter and midrange driver. The Type A has more overlap between the drivers, and because of this there is just more energy being sent to the tweeter than in the AA. The result is that the tweeter runs about 3db hotter than it does in the AA. So, like most things we deal with in this nutty hobby -- it ends up being system/room/ear dependant. Hey, who needs tone controls when all you need is a dozen networks laying around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Deano, are the cornwall crossovers ready? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiohead Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Dean, You have a PM Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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