D-MAN Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Who bloody cares what StereoPile has to say anyway? I expect that they would just take a big dump on the Khorn, as it would make them seem like a bunch of fools for bad-mouthing horns all these years if they suddenly turned around... I would pratically guarantee that the reviewer wouldn't set them up "correctly" anyway. They would just slap them in the corners and hey - bad review! I don't blame Klipsch at all - it would just be a waste of money for nothing... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 Assuming they have a room with corners (which is all that is needed for "setup" not a rep) I don't really care if the room is good or bad or what equipment they use (though they always try SS and tube amps in their speaker tests)...since they test all their speakers under the same conditions the idea is to see how the klipschorns compare to other speakers they have tested in their room with their amps, that is what I want to know. I, as always, seem to be less religously fervent about this subject, I do not hate stereophile or its writers I do not assume they have their hands out asking for money for good reviews (I do not know any "good authorities"). But I am interested in seeing how the klipschorns stack up against the hundreds of other speakers that magazine has tested over the recent years, I am curious, I want to know, I am not threatened by the idea... wierd mindset around here...I understand Klipsch having reservations, but klipsch users should want as much info as possible. no review is perfect, no opinion is perfect but ALL are usefull if we put commments in perspective. even mr. soo's review was interestgin reading to ME (though I too felt he did a poor job of analyzing and reviewing the klipschorn), mr. heyser's review was the definitive testing review but I am still interested in hearing more about my klipschorn, especially from a magazine that has tested pretty much all the best speakers out there in recent years...oh well...if this is how klipsch users feel about the subject (the magazine is worthless, the writers are deceptive and they will not appreciate the klipschorns) then klipsch will certainly not send a pair to stereophile. warm regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Stereophile could not possibly tell Forum members or Klipsch anything we do not know already. It boils down to whether someone needs the seal of approval from an audiophile mag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 ---------------- On 8/30/2004 10:15:40 AM radiob wrote: I think they should be reveiwed. Most high end speakers are. If they are perfection, then the reveiw will show it. It is 2004, and a lot of high end speakers have been built and then reveiwed by magazines, Fair is Fair. ---------------- WHAT FREAKIN' PLANET ARE YOU FROM!?! "If they are perfection, then the reveiw will show it." That's the biggest yellow button I've ever seen. Most "reviewers" are simply self-appointed "authority figures" and they don't know S***. The Stereo Times Klipschorn review is a fine example. BTW, there is no such thing as "perfection", especially in audio reproduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoriated_Tiger Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I dunno. That magazine has made a habit of backhandedly slapping Klipsch at just about every turn. I say, if they give it a fair hearing, in its element, with *really* good sources and amplification, then yeah.. but if they take it as a chance to further try to pummel the Klipsch name into oblivion, then no.. let 'em rot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 The reviewers at Stereophole appear to be fond of speakers with "warm" sound. That is a bump in the frequency plot centering at 100Hz and falling off above 10KHz. European sound would be another way of describing this. This month they review a $30K sub/midhi set up with that type of curve and the only thing the reviewer has heard better is that companies $50k flagship. How would a flat to 35Hz-15KHz, 104db efficient compare to that blah sound to a blah loving reviewer? Their measurement guru takes his polar response curves by placing the test subject on a five foot tall platform in the great outdoors. Fine lab there, did anyone else get a good chuckle from that statement of his? That kind of amaturish measuring methodology is what angered PWK and caused him to shun outside reviewers. That said, I would like to see a good review of the modern Klipschorn. In a world of $100k plus speakers, I think cheap $7500 Khorn would hold it's own. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoriated_Tiger Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 It'll certainly blow away speakers costing 2, 3 times what they do now. And that's bad for Stereophile, who specializes in shilling over-priced, under-performing 'boutique' speakers. Like Sonus Faber.. what are those.. off-the-shelf Vifa drivers? I think my humble Fortes out-does a lot of what they peddle in that rag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Hello, There was a time when I felt some respect for and enjoyed "Stereophool".I am (was) a long time subscriber (twenty plus years).My last issue will be this September's.Without hopping up on the soap box,all I have to say is that in my OPINION "Stereophool" in it's present condition is crap,a self-serving flavour of the month rag which owes it's current success to it's ability to fuel the insecurities of the poorly informed;read inexperienced and insecure.It's only redeeming quality is that it does provide SOME eye candy not unlike a good titty magazine.Sorry to rant,Paul Parrot already made my point for me with concise precision,less the diatribe. As Always, Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 Paul, My only bone to pick is that I like to hear it all...the good, the bad and the stupid too. I enjoy reading ALL the mags and hearing ALL the opinions, I find them useful. you guys do not feel the same way, I respect that, I expect you want to hear and read something else (though I am not clear what). The mags and reviewers out there are a given, we cannot influence who they are , how they test or what they say. My response is to read it all, enjoy it, put it into perspective, etc. I can chose to agree or disagree BUT I do want as much informaiton as possible. I do not look to anyone for validation of my choices in equipment, what point would there be to that? I choose based on my budget, my musical preferences, my environment and my favorite "sound" (and my wifes tolerance!). I still want to hear all I can, from all sources, about my beloved klipschorns. I hope that stereophile and klipsch come to some agreement and it does result in a full review of the klipschorn. warm regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoriated_Tiger Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Sal: My thing with S'phile isn't about validation, or anything else.. we *know* K-horns rock the house and will blow the lid off your brain.. that's not in question ;o) My bone with s'phile, and the like, is that through their back-handed slaps and refusal to give K speakers equal footing with their 'favored' speakermakers, it may have well cost Klipsch a lot of sales they may have otherwised enjoyed. Those sales over the years could amount to something, or to a hill of beans.. I really don't know. I wish there were *some* means to divine that information. These phools have consistently downrated a product which is actually superior and celebrate product which is actually mediocre. I can relate to the wanting to know thing -- I do it myself. On my office corkboard there's a review from J. Hirsch, 1986, on the Forte. I have another from "high fidelity," 1959, on the Stereo 70. I'll look 'em up on the 'net. I do it not to 'validate' my purchase, but really to see Who Gets It and Who Doesn't. Tis a fun little game ;o) I'd rather them NOT review it at all, than to come up and say "In comparison with xxx-xxxx or Xxxx-Xxxxxx" they seem xxx.xxx.xxxxx." I guarantee we *wont* see what we know the K-Horn deserves. We won't see that. They'd have to admit to 30 years of bovine byproduct before they do the K-horn right. Then again.. even the most bitter of enemies sometimes work together.. One of my fantasies is to kidnap and blindfold some famous reviewer, then sit him, blindfolded, in front of my very humble system, and watch the flowery, rhetorical praise flow.. until I unveil what he's been hearing. Allofasudden, it'll be "that's the absolute worst i've ever heared'. They're that two-faced. Just my two ¢... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Oh but yes we can influence "who they are".Just ask Art Dudley,FORMER head twit at the now DEFUNCT "Listener" now masquerading as the witty,sensitive,politically correct audio guru over at "Stereophool".He is SO enlightened he refers to people that like the music of Lynyrd Skynyrd and Journey as "goobers".Wonder if his gear reviews are just as objective? Analogman Someone please get those damn soap boxes away from me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Where ya been Analogman? We've missed you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Hello Gary, Thank you for asking and hope this finds you well! To answer your question,convalescing,unable to sit at computer for any length of time (bad spine).PM me at your convenience regarding the "free" Klipschorns.I saw this mentioned in another thread.Sorry for the off topic post folks. With Regards, Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Damn! You have my sympathies. A good friend of mine has a bad back and can't sit. Her "desk" at work is raised up high so she can stand at her computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 ---------------- On 8/30/2004 9:13:42 AM artto wrote: I've read and responded to this review. It is completely inane. Constantine Soo is a complete idiot! (I've written to him and told him so). In fact, this is one of the most lame and incompetent reviews of the Klipschorn I've ever seen. And its a great example of why Stereophile shouldn't bother with a review of the Klipschorn either. Something similar will most likely happen. ---------------- You make a really good point, artto. Re-reading that Soo review, the guy elected to review the Klipschorns 'toed' out, breaking the corner seal, because his corners weren't long enough. In addition Soo then tilted the Klipschorns so that the midrange horn was pointing directly at him. So we are not looking at a room considered 'ideal' for Klipschorn review purposes, and we are not looking at the Klipschorns being positioned ideally so they give their best. The review subsequently loses credibility in the eyes of any so-called audiophile. I agree with others in this thread. Stereophile seems to be directed at those who are interested in flavour of the month reviews and products that are quickly superseded by newer models on a regular basis. An improperly conducted review will do more damage to the Klipschorn reputation than any good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlindgren Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 There are a lot of conflicting things going on here. First, just last week I brought over some used KG 5.2 and Quartets over to a friend with same era (early 1990s) $1500 Boston Acoustics speakers. It wasn't even close--both sets of Klipsch were shockingly better. I wasn't reading stereo mags in the early 1990s, but I can bet that whatever they were recommending then for under $2,000 can't match either of these Klipsch models, yet the 5.2 and the Quartets are far from the most expensive or treasured Klipsch models. So a healthy skepticism of stereo reviewers is warranted. Also, placement of Khorns and the room itself are crucial. I heard a pair last month at a store and they sounded DIFFERENT, but not really BETTER than RF-7s in the same room, which is frankly ridiculous. BUT, second, Klipsch customer service has been accused of being less than straightforward or forthcoming with at least one reviewer. In this Audioholics article about an attempt to review a new Aragon system, Klipsch/Aragon customer service said that they would cooperate, but then didn't. If the article is to be credited, Audioholics has been using an Aragon system as its reference system. Klipsch then offered them a free 90-day review or allowed them instead to BUY the new system to review it. Audioholics agreed to buy it because they like Aragon enough to upgrade and replace the old system with the new Stage One. Still they were given the run-around by Klipsch/Aragon customer service. Read the article; it's quite depressing. http://www.audioholics.com/FAQs/aragon.html Audioholics also posted the official "response" from Joshua Hall at Klipsch, which is embarrassing. It's all bluster and no substance, acting hurt and angry without effectively disputing the major claims made by Audioholics. Audioholics responded simply, including this: "Post Klipsch Aragon has reneged on sending us promised product, despite the fact that we were paying customers, so that we could provide our readership the answers they requested. Mr. Hall's ridiculous notion that we were set on negatively critiquing the unit is silly considering we were planning on replacing our existing Aragon Soundstage in Reference System One with the Stage One." So, yes, Klipsch is likely to get a biased or incompetent review of the KHorns, but it has been reluctant to provide product even to reviewers who chose to purchase the product rather than getting a free loaner system for testing. I hope that Klipsch cooperates in providing its equipment to reviewers, but we shouldn't need the blessings of a reviewer to enjoy our speakers. We have our own ears and our own tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOOTERDOG Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Where is Trey, Steve or Steve? One would think they would be jazzed at the opportunity to send a set, fly there and set them up in a proper room with some great amplification, maybe some Aragon equipment. Trey, Steve, Steve....Are you listening? Scooterdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 ---------------- On 8/31/2004 7:52:35 PM Jlindgren wrote: There are a lot of conflicting things going on here. I hope that Klipsch cooperates in providing its equipment to reviewers, but we shouldn't need the blessings of a reviewer to enjoy our speakers. We have our own ears and our own tastes. ---------------- I agree Jlindgren. Just to further illustrate what you are saying, I work in a profession where I have had a lot to do with the media. In nearly all my encounters , I have come face to face with that old dilemma facing most journalists; Is it true? maybe. Is it fair? who cares. Will it sell copy? yes, yes, yes. At the end of the day, many audio journalists are just like any other journalist. They have to put bread on the table. And they work in a cut throat environment where you have no friends, only people who can help them get the story they want. I have to say, I would question the motives of any journalist who are actively seeking Klipsch gear to review in the manner that has been discussed in this thread. All audio journalists know there are certain protocols they need to go through with the manufacturer so that official reviewing gear can be obtained. Obtaining the equipment through the back door is inappropriate. Whether they offer to buy the gear or not. It is up to the manufacturer to decide whether they provide this gear in a manner that would suggest a fair and unbiased review would be forthcoming. Sorry if I have offended those on the forum who work in the media. If you are members of this forum, you're definitely not in this category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I have never been a big fan of Stereophile. But Mr Atkinson has been fair and approachable on the AA forums. And he seems to be addressing, or at least stating to address, a complaint that Sterophile isn't a real-world magazine giving real world advice. I have heard that they we going to review a modded Toshiba 3960! Now that would be a change - Stereophile reviewing a $50 DVD palyer with a couple of mods. I think reviewing a K'horn would be a good thing. It may be time to give Stereophile a chance to come down from the mountain and review equipment that people are actually listening to in the den. Peace, TommyK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickieheinz Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 ---------------- On 8/30/2004 10:04:10 AM seti wrote: Ah Hell make them got to Hope, AR to audition the system. Do they still have that room PWK built? Let them compare the system with different tube gear from pp to set maybe even PWK's favorite tube the 2a3. I like looking at the audiophile mags the same way I like looking at autophile mags while I'll never afford the new v10 porsche it sure is pretty to look at. I would like to see an audiophile mag that actually reviews equipment not priced in the stratosphere. Thank god for online forums like this and audioasylum etc.. ---------------- Check out The sensible sound.They do reviews on good affordable equipment.You probably have to subscribe to get it as they don't seem to get carried by the local Barnes and Nobles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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