jwc Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 Well this is my first post here although I have visited it for a long time. I need some opinions please. I have any entire home theater setup with McIntosh and Klipsch. My fronts are 84' La Scalas w/ AL crossovers. I know from reading multiple posts here that the AL's are giving unjustice to my Scalas. I'm about to recieve my Mac MC252 (250 watts per channel, SS amp) soon. Currently, my scalas are runnin' off my MAC MC 206 (120 watts x 6). I've had these speakers hooked up to a carver amp and some "good" onkyo equipment in the past. I haven't been 100% satisfied with my fronts scalas) so far. The upgrade to the MAC multichannel amp did help some but still not 100% satisfied. Soon they will be hooked up to the MC 252 MAC. Here is My question: Would I be happier with Purchasing RF-7's or upgrading the network on my Scalas? I have read an exhausting amount of info about new AA, A, and ALK networks. I listen to almost everything but haven't started appreciating classical or soft Jazz (I'm tring to). On a rare moment, I will put in some hard rock or metal, and the scalas are unbearable to listen to. Extremely harsh. Jazz and soft listening do well. Actually rap isn't all that bad when I play it for a laugh. Old funk or soul is my favorite and these scalas do OK but lack any low end. I have thought hard on tube but I can't find a way to incorporate this into my current home setup. I don't want tube mixed with "non-tube" preamp. I think this is a waste. So therefore, no tube recommendations. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 it is hard to assess your situation except that the onkyo gear is notoriously bright, it is good gear, but bright, so it would not mate well with las's, otherwise the las play well with everything, except that they need a sub to really shine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flason Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I have to disagree with the assessment of Onkyo. I have an M508 amp and P308 pre and love the sound through my Khorns. I have had LaScala's in the past but I never had them connected with the Onkyo Integra gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelie Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I have no experience with LaScala speakers but just wanted to say you have some awesome gear that's making me druel. When I added and MC202 to my RF7 stystem, the sound seemed to become explosive - in a good way: Deep, hard bass and totally smooth and laid back, even at low volumes. I'm in love. Now, all I can think about is adding another Mac to my system. Hmmm, a C45 maybe next on my list for sometime in 2005, although a C42 is more likely. Then again, I'd love to try the C2200. I don't think adding tubes to the pre-amp stage would be a waste at all, even with an SS amp - although I still have to try this before I say it with any confidence. Anyway, sorry for the lack of help. Just wanted to compliment you on some great gear. When you get the MC252, let us know how you feel the MC206 fits in. I have heard the lack of autoformers on the MC206 makes a difference when matched with an autoformered amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 You need to reach out to other GA forum members who might let you audition some good tube gear. You will find that you don't need to spend a lot of money to get the sound you're after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted November 15, 2004 Author Share Posted November 15, 2004 Thanks for the responses so far. I would love to explore the tube situation but there is a problem...the wife. She only wants me to get McIntosh becuse of the Matching factor. I have shown her pictures of the tube amps and she is disgusted with how they look. The MC2102 looks good but this would cost me 6000$ w/o a tube preamp. I don't want to spend this money without getting the true benifit of tube. Before you laugh, let me just say that my wife has been good about the high end audio. After I bought the Mac stuff, she has agreed to spend more but with the limitations as stated above. Therefore, another Mac SS amp is my option. Again, my question is whether the upgrade on the existing La Scala is better money spent than the sell of the La scalas and Buying new RF-7's. I want to say that I am not putting networks together myself. I would need to buy them preassembled. I just don't have the time for that project. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I think it is a decision that has to boil down to your ears. The RF-7's and LaScalas are two very different sounding speakers. I happen to own RF-7's, and love them. There is a smoothness to them that I miss with the LaScalas. However, the La's are big and wide sounding, lively, and seem to put you right in the middle of the performance - a great speaker! All that being said, it seems to me as a practical matter to try the route of the crossover upgrade first. This is more of a $$$ consideration, since a crossover upgrade should cost far less than a pair of RF-7's. Try that first, and see if it brings you to where you want to be. ---------------- On 11/15/2004 1:04:51 PM jwcullison wrote: Thanks for the responses so far. I would love to explore the tube situation but there is a problem...the wife. She only wants me to get McIntosh becuse of the Matching factor. I have shown her pictures of the tube amps and she is disgusted with how they look. The MC2102 looks good but this would cost me 6000$ w/o a tube preamp. I don't want to spend this money without getting the true benifit of tube. Before you laugh, let me just say that my wife has been good about the high end audio. After I bought the Mac stuff, she has agreed to spend more but with the limitations as stated above. Therefore, another Mac SS amp is my option. Again, my question is whether the upgrade on the existing La Scala is better money spent than the sell of the La scalas and Buying new RF-7's. I want to say that I am not putting networks together myself. I would need to buy them preassembled. I just don't have the time for that project. Thanks again ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 You are using 2 RC-35 centers with La Scala mains? Please visit my thread entitled "Using a pair of speakers as center (instead of only one)" and give me your impressions on that. How is the Heritage vs Reference mix working for you? I have been advised by many to avoid doing that... Any problems running two speakers as center as opposed to only one? (interference muddying the sound?) Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flason Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I know the dealers down here have a 60 day trial period. Maybe find one with the RF's in your neighborhood and see which one's you like better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted November 15, 2004 Author Share Posted November 15, 2004 psg, Good question and good thread (Using a pair of speakers as center). I couldn't use heritage for my set up due to room configuration. I have the two surrounds standing on end next to each other. Direction is not a problem as I am right in front of them. My Mac MC206 has 125 watts going to each one. I do not use these speakers for audio. They are for movie watching alone. The one RC-35 didn't seem to "be enough" for my La Scalas. If I had my preference, I would like to be all heritage. I don't seem to have any issues as mentioned in your "Using a pair of speakers as center" Thanks for the input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted November 15, 2004 Author Share Posted November 15, 2004 Thank you for addressing my question. Your description in the difference in sound is how I imagined the diffence would be. I have not heard the RF-7's before. My La Scala makes me feel Im in a live performance IF the source is good. However, I don't like them enough they way they are. I could upgrade the networks. If I don't like the sound as much as I should. I could sell the Scalas with the new Networks. On audioreview.com, the RF-7 was decribed as an excellnt speaker. Downfalls unanimously were the cheap feet and grills. The RF-7 was dinged in points usually for its lack of low end bass. I'm also lacking this in the La Scalas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelie Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Granted, RF7s go down to 32 hz instead of 20 hz but with a McIntosh, those two 10-inch woofers will kick you in the chest. Low end bass is not one of the places I dock my RF7s on. Grills? Probably, but I've been fortunate that I haven't broken one yet. Cheap feet ... yeah, could be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 The RF 7 will go lower than the La Scala, I own 84 La Scala's w/ALK kit xovers. I entertained the idea of selling eth La Scala's and buying the RF 7's (this was pre ALK). Fortunately I had an acquaintance who had the 7s and we ABed them. To me the La Scalas were clear winners. The 7s sounded thin in mid and high range when compared to the La Scalas. I felt the La Scala had more depth and presence than the 7s. The 7s bass was impressive and dug deeper that the La Scalas however that is a function of range and not quality of bass. Within their range again I thought the La Scalas outperformed the 7s. For the record though my friend felt the opposite of me. So where am I going wit this? Only you can tell if you will like the 7s more or less than your La Scalas. Demo them and see what you like. The soundstage in your local retailer venue is likely to be inadequate for this purpose though. Make sure you are comparing equal and identical set ups. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 I wish I knew something about McIntosh, but I don't -- you guys throw the model numbers out there and I have no idea if you are talking about amps or preamps. It's apparent however that based on the amount of people who use the stuff with Klipsch with no complaint -- I wouldn't question the choice in gear -- at least not at this point. The Type AL is despised equally by all with the exception of one person here on the forum. John Albright says this network has an awful howl at 300Hz. I believe this was a transitional network, and most dump the thing as soon as possible. Your most cost effective route is to upgrade your AL's to the AL-3. From there it's the ALKs. I can do the former, Al does the latter. There is an "in between" network (cost) that John Albright designed that I can build as well -- if he doesn't mind. If you haven't done it -- you need to rope caulk your horns. I don't know if Mc makes any tube preamps that match your current gear, but if they do -- then that's your next step. The preamp seems to dictate the overall sonic signature -- more so than any other piece of gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted November 16, 2004 Author Share Posted November 16, 2004 J.4knee Nice response. Did you install the networks yourself? Again I don't wish to build any. What Amp and Preamp are you running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted November 16, 2004 Author Share Posted November 16, 2004 DeanG Im glad you joined in on this. Links to my base equipment is below. Is it a snap to install say one of your networks? Do you have a website where I can look at your network? If I remove my AL, will your network screw into the same holes. I am familiar with the benefit of your upgrade as well as others. I am trying to get a feel of the complexity and cost of the upgrade. The MC252 will push my Scalas. I know this is overkill. I know your thinking I need a tube preamp and tube amp but my wife wont HATES the looks of tubes. I could always incorporate the MC2102 (tube amp) but there is no way to adequately incorporate a tube preamp into my Home theater setup without a mess of remotes and time consuming settings. My wife is into the Home theater and its looks. That why I have to stick with matching McIntosh pieces. Im am more into 2 channel stereo. http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=15&cat=Audio%2FVideo+Control+Centers&prodid=1099&product=MX119 http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=14&cat=Power+Amplifiers&prodid=1021&product=MC206 http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=14&cat=Power+Amplifiers&prodid=1055&product=MC252 Thanks jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted November 16, 2004 Author Share Posted November 16, 2004 I meant to ask, What does "rope caulk your horns" mean. I'm sorry if this is covered somewhere else on the forum. If it is, Give me a hint on which thread to look in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 I have the MC206 and MC202's . Wait, you will hear a big improvement when you hook up the MC252. The two channel amps are much better then the multi channel amps. You won't be happy with the Reference after having LaScalas. We can talk about networks later. I might even have a pair that you would be interested in. You won't think about tubes after you listen to the 252. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted November 16, 2004 Author Share Posted November 16, 2004 Fantastic. So is Your MC202 running the La Scalas. What preamp are you using? I think at this point I won't go with the RF-7's. My dealer here states a new klipsch reference is coming out next spring called Reference Premiere. This will retail for 5000$ If I am not happy with my Scalas w/ or w/o the upgrades, I may consider this option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 I actually have modified Klipschorns in my home theater, but I do use two pairs of LaScalas in it. I use one pair for front effect speakers, and the other pair for a second pair of surrounds. I'm without a processor right now, I sold mine I'm debating between the Anthem AVM 30 and the Parasound Halo C2. I would love to hear what the MX134, or the MX135 sounds like. Right now they just don't have some of the features that I want a processor to have. I'm sure McIntosh will have them someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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