Here we go with PC again...

dodger · December 20, 2004

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On 12/20/2004 11:28:55 AM Amy Unger wrote:

I think I read or saw somewhere that they modeled Cartman after Archie Bunker from All in the Family...that the times now are so PC, that only an 8 year old cartoon kid can get away with acting like that on TV.

But did people ever complain about Archie Bunker? He was rude, bigoted, narrow-minded, but it seemed like it was acceptable back then, and funny to everyone. He was wrong, everyone knew it and accepted it. Why did things change so radically? Where there really people who found him offensive? Or was it the people exactly like him that were offended?

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Hi Amy:

In descriptions of the show, for lack of a better term - it was the first "reality" show.

There is SOME part, not all, but some part, of each of us in Archie Bunker. Besides all of the prejudices and ill manners, he was Blue Collar, he stated his feelings, something that is not PC.

He wanted the best for his "Little Goil" and "Meathead" did not fit his vision.

It was also another time of change in the Country, "Father Knows Best" with his simple solutions was hitting Mother Knows Best, because daddy didn't stick around. And though some will say otherwise, it wasn't just a Black or White Issue.

The opening Theme, shows the reliance on what was known, without stating a fear of the future, of aging, of CHANGE.

Much as we are experiencing now. How many songs that were done when we we, now in our late 40s, early 50s are being re-done. Teens are as grown up as we were then.

Those were the days showed a much more simplified version of life. 30 minutes - problem started, problem resolved. Happy Days and Laverne and Shirley were high points also. More blue collar, dad didn't walk around in a shirt and tie, Mom sometimes had more answers.

But Those Were The Days pushed the envelope. It pushed the Censors. Archie went against PC. Something we saw coming hard and something we wished we had the guts to reject certain parts of.

Today, Archie would have his elbows on the table while he wished you Merry Christmas.

dodger

Cal Blacksmith · December 20, 2004

Ok, I am late to the party again. So is this a Christmas thread or a Holiday thread? Either way, it is religious. CHRISTmas or HOLYday both are religious so when you have a holidy party remember that it is a HOLY day that we are celebrating.

Don't get me started on kwanza, it was started by a socialist professor in the late 60s at California State University, Long Beach and was founded on the principals of the Black Panthers. It is all hearts and flowers now, but that isn't the foundation. I am not against any ethnic group celebrating the traditions that they hold dear, please do but do not invent something as radical as kwanza and tell us it has deep meaning. It doesnt!

dodger · December 20, 2004

Greetings:

Well as far as I am concerned it is the language that I have known all my life.

Merry Christmas.

Now If I know otherwise, or I am corrected. That is it.

I thank Henry and Michael for calming things down Saturday Night.

My God is not better than your God.

In the mood I was in, I realized I was not clear.

I had Been at a planning meeting, for which we were given handouts to become acquainted with the traditions.

It was Security for a number of Cultural events, but since we were on City Government Property, we could not say Merry Christmas, Happy Hanuakkah, etc.. But we were the to learn other traditions and cultures to be passed down.

My 52 year old Culture (to me) was thrown out so as not to offend. It did not matter if we found any of the events offensive. Shut up and do what you're trained to do.

So if my being irritable went to anyone personally I apologize. I emailed Tom and apologized and he was a true Gentleman. Like to meet him sometime. As I would a lot of the Members.

I'm a 2 fingered typist, so 4 or 5 posts go up before I finish the long one I type.

But the crux is that those of the Jewish Faith and Christian get the short end.

That IS said with full apologies to non-believers or those of others Faiths.

Someone noted the special feeling and the way people get along.

I'd love to see the perfect world: Peace On Earth with Goodwill to All. And I know I go on, but just think of a world where we could agree to disagree, have discussions with opposing views, without taking it to a personal level.

Where somebody like me could rant and get a pleasant email back from Tom. Class

There's more, but just take a couple of minutes to think.

And Cluless and I have fun mis-spelling each other's name, because I messed it up.

I hope Amy's baby has a better world than ours. She'll give him one.

dodger

Champagne taste beer budget · December 20, 2004

Late to the party also.

I've been making a special point of saying "Merry Christmas" to the people I have contact with this year. A few were "people of color" and replied the same, and it seemed heartfelt, with no mention of Kwanza. A few I knew were Jewish, and they replied the same, though two did say Happy Hannakuh in addition to Merry Christmas. One of my employees is pretty much agnostic, yet has asked about our Christmas party and what the work schedule for being closed is, since it's on a Sat.

I don't doubt that it's just the area I live in that has the greatest bearing on peoples' attitudes this time of year. Not necessarily all blue collar, but a lot of hard working people, many of which are only 3rd generation from Europe. We lost my fathers parents when I was maybe 3 or 4, but they came over on the boat from Denmark. Centuries of tradition don't change fast, regardless of what the schools, big business or city hall says SHOULD happen. In an effort to not upset ANYONE's a$$, they end up trying to kiss everyones. You can't have it both ways.

Heard something today that in Sweden (I think it was?) regular church attendance is right around 10% of the population. In the US it's around 80%. C H U R C H. Where you go to talk about, read about, sing about, and listen to the words of Christ. That would be the same dude that got the whole Christmas thingy started, best as I can recall. Therefore, I figure wishing everyone a Merry Christmas should be appropriate 80% of the time. Actually higher, based on my particular demographics.

So 20% of the population don't want to obey the speed limit? OK, no more limit, don't wanna upset anyone. 1 in 5 think not paying your taxes is ok, sounds like we abolish that too!!

Give me a break, America. If you don't like the way the majority of the population of this country celebrates the Christmas Season, either 1) Hold your tongue and learn to live with it, or 2) Find a country that shares your views and go live there.

I have, in or around my house and office/shop, at this moment:

Christmas Trees

Christmas Lights

Christmas Decorations

Christmas Stockings over the fireplace

Christmas Ornaments

Christmas Cards

Christmas Carols on the stereo

Christmas Parties

Christmas Bonuses

Christmas Presents

And last but not least

Christmas Cheer

It's my religon, it's my beliefs, it's the same for the majority of this country. Don't try and neutralize it or turn it into some sort of androginous holiday. It's CHRISTMAS!! It has been for the last couple thousand years, but in the last 5 or 10 years our country has been brought to its' knees by trying to cater to everyone, while at the same time pleasing no one but the minority. I don't feel threatened when someone comes in wearing a (whatever you call those little caps Jewish people wear)

, nor do I feel like I am being slighted when someone comes in wearing a coat of many colors celebrating Kwanza, or when I get into a car that is driven by someone of Middle Eastern descent with a picture of Allah or whomever on their dash. I don't ask them to please refrain from being proud of, and exclaiming, their heratige and traditions. I only ask they show me the same courtesy.

dodger · December 20, 2004

I guess that should be the point.

Others come here now, a number don't want to learn how to speak English. There is much talk of their Heritage, their Roots.

What's wrong with starting new traditions. Teaching your lineage at home? It can still be passed without causing us to change too.

Somehow there is room. There was for the Italians, Germans, French that all assimilated.

Until then, Merry Christmas.

dodger

Allan Songer · December 20, 2004

So what do y'all think of "W" using the term "Happy Holidays" just the other day? You think maybe he's gone over to the dark side?

Just wondering . . .

I usually say "I hope you and your family have a WONDERFUL holiday." What's wrong with that?

And, by the way, our family celebrates Christmas.

dodger · December 21, 2004

Nothing wrong Allan, he has to cover all.

If you choose to say happy Holidays, that's okay. It's when it's forced. As in the example I gave one Suburban School District could NOT call their decorated lighted trees Christmas Trees. They had to be called Holiday Trees.

Allan Songer · December 21, 2004

You're right--that's the worst sort of BS.

It's like the Klan calling their hideous cross-burning a "traditional Christian cross-lighting ceremony."

EVERYONE knows what a Chirstmas tree is and calling it a "Holiday" tree is STUPID!

Tom Adams · December 21, 2004

The piece of the puzzle that's missing for me is that these "changes" (if you will) are sold under the guise of being tolerant towards other folks' religions/culture/traditions/whatever. So where's the reciprosity of others being tolerant to my religion/culture/traditions/whatever?

I liken this whole fiasco to the child who says a cuss word only once because no one makes a fuss over it and they therefore don't know they've done anything wrong. But make a big issue out of it and what happens? And so too it is with this sanitization process of a Christian Holy Day. Folks that didn't pay much attention when someone said, "Merry Christmas" are now being told they should be offended.

I'm sorry, but I'm very offended when I get a "Diversity Newsletter" (that's right, my company has people who are paid to write articles on diversity and diversity do's & don't's) from my company that says I can't say Merry Christmas because it MIGHT offend someone nearby. But I can fart & burp all I want and that's just considered crude. BULLSH*T! That's offensive too.

I'm gonna shut up now for I feel myself drifting off-topic.

With no disrespect, Merry Christmas to each of you and I hope each of you has a very safe and prosperous (i.e. buy more electronics, CD's, DVD's, albums, speakers, etc.) New Year!

Tom

dodger · December 21, 2004

You know it's taken 3 pages, I don't know how many posts and here it is.

You have hit it Tom - where is the reciprocity?

Thank You!!

ASnd may You and Your Whole Family Celebrate Christmas together. In love, in unity, in the glow of the Star above.

Merry Christmas!!

Win

oscarsear · December 21, 2004

CHAMPAGNE TASTE, BEER BUDGET.......Excellent, dead on and eloquently emphatic!!

lynnm · December 21, 2004

This one of my all time favourites:

THE CHRISTMAS PARTY