A Dream Come True...

[deepmukherjee]

Yes...I finally bought a pair of RF-7s(Cherry) this saturday. I have dreamed of owning these speakers for a copule of years now...I used to frequent these forums some time bak...now that i own these babies i'm gonna be a regular here. I bought them for $2500 from the local dealer in India.

They are being powered by a Harman Kardon AVR430 receiver (65 W x 7 / 80 W x 2). I'm using a Pioneer DVD player to play Audio CDs and MP3 discs. I'm also using QED cables and a QED Coaxial cable to carry audio signals from my DVD player to the amp.

I had a demo of these speakers at the local dealer. There, the RF-7s were powered by a Sunfire Ultimate Receiver (200W x 7). Sounded brilliant...

But at home these speakers dont sound as good. I feel it lacks base and some low midrange (I own a Promedia 5.1 and that system gives a lot of bass). Is this usual?

1. Will the speakers sound better after they break in?

2. Should i have used an optical cable instead of the Coaxial?

3. SInce the RF7s have dual 10" woofers i thought they would be enough for my base requirements...do i need to get a SUB now?

4. Is there any adjustments I can make to improve things? I have already set the speakers to Large mode.

Any help will be highly appreciated......

[edwinr]

You need to give them plenty of time to break-in. After a few hours, you should find the hardness will start to go and the sound will mellow out, becoming much smoother. When I fisrt bought my KLF10's a few years ago (now since sold), they sounded terrible. I was going to sell them. But I stuck with them and they improved vastly over a few weeks. Hang in there and give them a chance. After a suitable time, if the sound is still not the your satisfaction, then you can start experimenting with room treatment, position, and then maybe finetuning your other components.

BTW MP3 music CAN sound bad on any full range loudspeaker.

[mandi]

I had/have alot of MP3 music on disc. I made many a mix for long road travel times and I loved it, and it sounded great in the car. I got my klipsch speakers and I have never heard so much snapping and popping in my life. I take the disc out and put it in the car and it sounds fine. I up a CD, DVD or SACD in my player inside and it sounds fine. Have given up playing MP3 on my klipsch. But that does not bother me. Just gave me an excuse to go buy something.

[Steve_L]

There are a LOT of variables between what you are listening to at home and what you listened to at the store.

In fact the only thing now in common is the speakers. I'd be looking at the room, and your speaker placement.

Did the demo room use a subwoofer? Also, looking at the source material. Did the demo room use special demo CDs?

MP3s barely sound good on my MP3 player, I wouldn't go by those.

[colterphoto1]

Don't play MP3 at home, they are terrible, RF7's show faults very well.

Optical vs coax doesnt' matter.

for HT you will want a sub.

They do need to break in, Remember you have a HARD metal woofer, got to beat it up a bit so it sounds like a nice soft paper woofer (Cornwalls ROCK)

Try speaker placement after break in.

HAVE FUN

Michael

[minn_male42]

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On 12/28/2004 5:39:44 AM deepmukherjee wrote:

...They are being powered by a Harman Kardon AVR430 receiver (65 W x 7 / 80 W x 2). I'm using a Pioneer DVD player to play Audio CDs and MP3 discs. I'm also using QED cables and a QED Coaxial cable to carry audio signals from my DVD player to the amp.

I had a demo of these speakers at the local dealer. There, the RF-7s were powered by a Sunfire Ultimate Receiver (200W x 7). Sounded brilliant...

But at home these speakers dont sound as good. I feel it lacks base and some low midrange (I own a Promedia 5.1 and that system gives a lot of bass). Is this usual?....

----------------

I agree with the above posters. They will sound better over a period of time.

But there is another issue. The RF-7's have an impedance drop in the lower frequencies that dips below 3 ohms. The Sunfire in the store with it's more powerful amplifiers could easily handle the low impedance drop.

Your low powered H/K cannot handle this drop and will never give you the same amount of bass that the Sunfire did.

Many people have added an external amplifier to handle the low impedance dip and experienced a tremendous improvement in the sound. Your other option would be to get a much more powerful receiver, but the outboard amplifier will be much more cost effective.

[3dzapper]

"(I own a Promedia 5.1 and that system gives a lot of bass)."

You are right there. The 5.1's dual 8" woofers and BASH amp put out bodasious amounts of bass. But that bass is "not real" it's greatly magnified by just a little twist on the control pod. To get that kind of bass, you will need to use a subwoofer with high end clean efficient RF-7s.

You could use your 5.1 sub to try it out by going to Radio Shack and buying an adapter that lets you plug RCA cables in and fits the mini-jack input to the 5.1 amp (RS part # 274-369). Patch from the tape out jacks on your HK to the front in on the 5.1 and control the bass volume with the control pod. If you like the effect, many here can recommend a good sub to match your RF-7s.

We are always glad to help others spend their hard earned cash.

Unfortunately, we also spend too much of our own on our obsession.

Rick

[minn_male42]

By the way - for strictly two channel music - you should NOT need a sub if you have an adequate amplifier.

The RF-7's will put out a ton of bass if you power them right.

A sub is needed for home theater - but not for 2 channel.

[deepmukherjee]

Thanks guys. Really appreciate your inputs.

[tillmbil]

I think a different amp would produce what you are looking for. Even a cheap HK630 would help you to see the difference. I have a PA2000, and I do not feel it helps with bass production.

[marksdad]

you are missing the obvious, the largest variable is the difference in source. the sunfire is a large leap from the hk. the hk in its own right is good, but the sunfire is great, not my choice but still great in its own right. all by itself this would make the difference in sound that you are missing from the store demos

[Klipsch RF7]

I had the same dilemma, my RF-7's have the same anemic bass. The bass is ok but not earth shattering, so I just bought a Klipsch RSW-15 and boy does it make a huge diffrence, massive wall shaking and ground pounding bass!!! I power my RF-7's witha Tube preamp and two Dynaco Mark III monobloc tube amps running at 60watts each. Klipsch even recommends using the RSW-15 sub to handle the low frequencies, the RF-7 crossover is set way high around 2200khz, it is mainly designed to handle highs and mids, it is meant to be used with a sub to fill out the bottom octaves.

[minn_male42]

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On 12/29/2004 1:36:33 PM Klipsch RF7 wrote:

I had the same dilemma, my RF-7's have the same anemic bass. The bass is ok but not earth shattering, so I just bought a Klipsch RSW-15 and boy does it make a huge diffrence, massive wall shaking and ground pounding bass!!! I power my RF-7's witha Tube preamp and two Dynaco Mark III monobloc tube amps running at 60watts each. Klipsch even recommends using the RSW-15 sub to handle the low frequencies, the RF-7 crossover is set way high around 2200khz, it is mainly designed to handle highs and mids, it is meant to be used with a sub to fill out the bottom octaves.

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It is too bad that you are not hearing what an RF-7 is truly capable of.

Borrow a high power amp that can handle the low impedance dips of the RF-7's and you will never use your sub again for two channel music.

And I disagree with your assertion that the RF-7's are designed to handle "highs and mids". Additionally, the official specs of 32Hz-20kHz ± 3dB also disagree with you.

Quote from the spec sheet on the RF-7

"The dual 10-inch woofers have stiff, lightweight Cerametallic cones, rigid, low-resonance cast-aluminum frames, and enormous 50-ounce magnets, enabling them to generate staggering levels of bass without strain or distortion."

Klipsch is assuming of course that you have an amplifier that can adequately do the job!

[Audio Flynn]

In the Indianapolis Klipsch Labs there was only large Argon amps in use. of course they could have hid som ein the cupboards. HEHE

RF-7 is rumored to have lower impedance than older Klipsch lines.

Nicest, most musical setup I heard RF-7 with was with the Blueberry preamp and NOS Valves VRD monoblocks.

[3dzapper]

"You could use your 5.1 sub to try it out by going to Radio Shack and buying an adapter that lets you plug RCA cables in and fits the mini-jack input to the 5.1 amp (RS part # 274-369)."

I followed my own advice to see the results using my Heresy/Jolida set-up. Although the resulting sound had "placement issues" ie, some cancellation as the 5.1 sub and left Hersy were 6" apart, the amount of bass provided filled the room well. It was not as "musical" as the SW-15 though. I would not expect it to be. The SW-15 is with it's 15" woofer and 15" passive radiator adjusted to blend with Heresys and properly placed and phased a much better unit. It cost (new) about $1500 v the 5.1's $500 price tag including 5 satillittes (list prices). The 5.1 woofer/BASH amp would however act as an adequate bridge should the SW break down or in your case until you can get a good deal on an RW-15 which replaced the SW-15 in the Klipsch line.

Rick

[Colin]

subs are for music too...

[minn_male42]

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On 12/29/2004 5:18:57 PM Colin wrote:

subs are for music too...

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Yes - but with a good amplifier and the RF-7's, you do not need a sub to have great music!

If your RF-7's require a sub to have good bass, then something is wrong with your amplifier.

[Klipsch RF7]

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On 12/29/2004 5:20:37 PM minn_male42 wrote:

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On 12/29/2004 5:18:57 PM Colin wrote:

subs are for music too...

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Yes - but with a good amplifier and the RF-7's, you do not need a sub to have great music!

If your RF-7's require a sub to have good bass, then something is wrong with your amplifier.

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The RF-7's have decent bass, but it is nowhere near having a dual 15" Klipsch sub handling the low frequencies, it's not even close. I listen to lots of Rock and need the thumping clean bass of the RSW-15, it just sounds a heck of alot fuller and deeper. I know what the specs say and the RF's go down to 32hz, but the RSW-15 goes way lower to 19hz, that is a huge diffrence in bass frequency. You dont feel it in your chest or through your whole body like you do with the addition of the sub. I use a tube preamp without any tone controls, so I cannot add in bass. Id rather have the RF's handling the mid to highs and have a workhorse sub for the extrememe lows.

[minn_male42]

I guess I should have qualified my statement.

If you want to

accurately

reproduce the music that was recorded on the CD / LP / SACD, you do not need a subwoofer if you power your RF-7's adequately. Obviously your amplifiers are not doing the job!

And unless you have powered your RF-7's with a high power (200 watts or more) quality amplifier you have NO CONCEPT at the amount of bass that they actually do reproduce.

If you want special effects like over emphasized bass - then use your subwoofer for your music listening.

[Klipsch RF7]

Trust me, I have used all sorts of solid state amps on these speakers, Krell 200 watts per channel amp, Rotel solid state 300 watt amp, Marantz 70's era solid state, high current recievers . None ever produced deep thumping bass, its just not inherent of the speaker. It is not designed to handle deep low frequencies, it will handle bass up to a certain point and thats it,Klipsch even recommends the addition of a sub for that purpose. Trust me, listen to you speakers with and without a sub, you will notice a huge diffrence, the amps are perfectly fine and were recently upgraded and rebuilt, so they are not an issue