m00n Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Hey guys, I know some of you are veneering experianced. I was hoping to find out from some of you how difficult this process is. What are some things that a never-done-it-before person should know? What are the tools, tricks of the trade? As mentioned, I plan on rebuilding our speaker cabinets and will want to veneer them. Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 m00n, see my thread on building a Belle, the one that sez it has pics, I've got a little stuff there. much better yet is greg's stuff, it's what inspired me to get going. see his Heresy page. I think there's links to his other projects on those pages. There's a ton of stuff out on the net too. I used the hot iron technique, had good results from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEPS56 Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Just finished doing a little veneer work myself. There are a few tricks to it. Not the easiest job I have ever done; but mostly patience and technique. First get all of the flaws out of the substate with wood putty and block sand or use an electric sander. Use contact cement from a woodworking store. I've heard that the nonbacked veneer is prefered. Put a coat of glue on both surfaces and let them dry until slightly tacky. Lay dowel rods between the surface and the sheet of veneer to support it until you have it lined up like you want it; book matching the grain and so forth . Then start in the center and press it together while removing the dowel rods. Rub the veneer with a rag to remove any bubbles. The veneer should have at least three or four inches overhang to make it easier to trim. There are several ways to trim the edges: but I'll tell you a trick that an experienced woodworker told me. Buy a new metal file. Old ones are rusty and have metal in them. Wash it in soap and water and dry it. Pull down slightly on the overhanging piece while filing on the edge until it becomes thin enough to break off. This method will leave a nice sharp corner comparable to the original klipsch. Veneer is very delicate and splinters easily. Take your time and the results are very rewarding. Hope this helps and good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Veneering is nothing you can't do with a little practice m00n. If I can do it, I'm sure you can! Do you know what species of wood veneer you are going to use? The easiest to use is the paper backed type that they sell at Lowes, etc. There is no taping or bookmatching involved. Contact cement is fine for the paper backed veneer. Raw veneer is a bit more work but can be had in more exotic woods. Google veneer and there are a lot of pages with tips. I bookmatch my ends by first cutting the leafs to length then clamp them in a pile with the edges even to a board under a long level and trimming and sanding the edges flat. If you need more than one joint per side (thin width veneer) you will need to flip the pile and match the other side. Forget veneer tape! It's too messy and involves water. Get some BLUE masking tape at Home Depot, etc. It is not as sticky as white and sticker than purple. It takes to the iron well and comes off the surface cleanly. Joewoodworker.com has a heat set PVA glue and veneer softener that I can highly recommend. Works much much better than yellow PVA (Elmers, etc) Do some homework and write a report back to us in one week. Jim, I like your file idea. What I have been doing is trim the edges against my carpenter's square. That leaves about 1/8" overhang that I sand off. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted January 6, 2005 Author Share Posted January 6, 2005 Thanks all.. zapper, what is bookmatching? Actually, I purty much don't understand all this paragraph... Raw veneer is a bit more work but can be had in more exotic woods. Google veneer and there are a lot of pages with tips. I bookmatch my ends by first cutting the leafs to length then clamp them in a pile with the edges even to a board under a long level and trimming and sanding the edges flat. If you need more than one joint per side (thin width veneer) you will need to flip the pile and match the other side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Not to sure about that file idea,,,,will flake off veneer i think...cut down to 1/8 inch and then sand real slow works best for me. Rick ps, also think wood backed veneer works best for me from woodworkers supply..also on the contact cement put it on thin not thick it will make lumps...but if you do get lumps and bubbles just use clothes iron and heat the area up seems to take lumps and bubbles out...would help to practice on piece of wood first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Rick, I had a reply for you last night but just then, my computer crashed,GRRR!! Since it was 12:45AM, I went to bed. When you buy raw veeneer, it is stacked by the veneer mill in such a way that when you open two leafs, the grain will mirror itself. If one needs more than two widths the stack can be opened like a fan. Here is a pic of a bookmatched seam on one of my Khorns. Notice how the grain pattern looks like there is one sheet being held on a mirror. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popbumper Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Thanks for starting this thread, Moon - I have a pair of beat up Cornwalls I wish to reveneer. MY particular question for the experts is.....for HEAVILY SCRATCHED factory veneer, can I reveneer OVER it? If so, how does one prep this existing surface to "accept" new material? Do I need to fill and sand first? Do I need to try and remove the existing finish? What is possible/acceptable? I would be using Walnut.... Many thanks.... Popbumper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Just sand and fill the scratches with that minwax wood filler works great Greg recomended it to me....then make sure the surface is super smooth....hardest part is getting surface ready and trimming the veneer. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 "MY particular question for the experts is.....for HEAVILY SCRATCHED factory veneer, can I reveneer OVER it?" I'll add, Sand off all the old finish, if any of the old veneer is loose, remove the loose pieces and fill the area it was in. The front edge banding will come off with the heat from an iron, I recommend removing this and adding new banding for your finishing touch. When RickTate said "Smooth" surface, that means no bumps or dips. You want a little roughness like 160 grit paper will leave for the glue to adhere to. Oh yeah m00n, I forgot to mention that matching pre-glued edge banding is availiable in most popular woods. Makes that part a lot easier. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 JEPS56, Most of the guys here who have been doing veneering lately have been using titebond instead of contact cement. You put a coat on the veneer piece and a coat on the cabinet. Let both dry. Place veneer where you want it and use an iron (don't use the one the wife uses for your shorts or she'll wait 'til you have them on the next time!). The heat from the iron melts the glue and as it cools back down it fuses the veneer to the cabinet surface. A lot less fumes than the contact cement. I think the link to Greg's site above has the pages from a woodworking mag that explains in more detail. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 ---------------- On 1/7/2005 12:21:05 PM Marvel wrote: (don't use the one the wife uses for your shorts or she'll wait 'til you have them on the next time!). Marvel ---------------- Why? What does it do to the iron? can you put a cloth between the iron and wood to protect the iron? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popbumper Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Even moreso, I wonder why you would not put something between the iron and veneer to protect the WOOD? Can it not be easily burned/scratched/scorched? Popbumper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Iv'e used the Lowes hot glue veneer and it worked ok but it is tricky and the surface must be absolutely flat. If you sand it a bit too hard with an electric sander the excessive heat build up will heat the glue and it will pop back up. If I had to do it all over I would use the formica and trim it with a router. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Hey Moon: The main thing the cloth does is protect the venner from being scorched by the iron. I've used a bath towel that's not very thick. I've used a brand of veneer made by "Band-It." You can get pre glued that you iron on or non-glued. Using the iron and towel is also good for iron protection if there is any grit remaining on a surface. It's a little time consuming at first, but when you get the hang of it, troubles should be few. Don't set the iron on it's highest setting. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 What about rounded corners? Say I wanted round corners rather than square corners, how hard is it to wrap veneer around a bevel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Veneer softener will allow that with raw veneer m00n. The 3/4" Band It edging went around the radiused front of my Blueberry case with no problem too. Moon go look at: http://joewoodworker.com/articles.htm Some good advice can be found there. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 Thanks... I'll try that link, I've been to the site but didn't see any articles only stuff for sale.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 ---------------- On 1/7/2005 3:40:17 PM 3dzapper wrote: Veneer softener will allow that with raw veneer m00n. The 3/4" Band It edging went around the radiused front of my Blueberry case with no problem too. Moon go look at: http://joewoodworker.com/articles.htm Some good advice can be found there. Rick ---------------- Hey Moon: If you are talking about the front "Facing" bezels, it can be difficult. If it is a large side, it can be done by either the softener or some wet it. Near electronics I don't rcommend wetting. Over the weekend if you have trouble, send me a fax # I'll dig up what I can and send Monday. Also Band-It has an 800 number. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 OH I won't be doing it this weekend. I still have to build the cabinets. I'm just doing my homework now. Gonna use 3/4 MDF, it's about $12.00 cheaper than 3/4 ply and it's not like these speakers are all that great to begin with. Actually, my wife would like an entire new stereo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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