joessportster Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 hello again guys i am somewhat new to tt use but have a vast collection of vinyl(1500 albums), am fairly happy with my thorens 160 with a stanton 681 cartridge/stylus, but have been seeing the mm, or mc cartridges for sale and am wondering what is the better style the mm, or the mc type cartridge, i realize i would have to have a pre amp that would allow use of 1 or the other, (or both), at present my pre-amp will only allow use of the mc, but i am switching my pre-amp in the near future and want to get the best sound possiable, any suggestions on a good quality set-up would be appreciated, also a little information on the difference between the 2 types of cartridges and the benefits of each, i figure a budget for a new cartridge around 100 to 150.00 thanks Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 If you are running a Stanton 681 your preamp is set up for a moving magnet cartridge and not for a moving coil cartridge.Moving magnet cartridges have a much higher output than moving coil units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 ok thanks for that, but it doesnt address the questions, do you have any knowledge of the differences or just wanted to correct me Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Joe, Which Stanton 681 do you have? If it is a 681 EE you won't find better for $150 IMO. In MM carts: A Shure VMX(?) for the mid $200s would be a step up. If you would rather have a more "laid back" sound a Grado Reference Platinum at $300 new might be a choice. Within or slightly under your budget a Shure M-97ED would be my choice. Good MC cartridges start in the $400-500range up to $3000 and more for the esoteric hand made Koetsus(sp?). I think you would be better served with a MM with your Thorens waiting for a MC until you decide on a substantial TT upgrade. Why? Your tone arm wiring and compliance isn't up to the standards necessary to take advantage of the MC's ultra dynamics. And, the high gain of a MC amp will accentuate the motor noise of the Thorens. YMMV,etc. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 joe Cool your jets Boyo! If you had gone out and bought an MC cartridge it wouldn't have worked with your current setup. If you go to a moving coil cartridge you will likely need to buy a rather expensive preamp or buy a stepup transformer. I was actually attempting to help you save some cash. There are many good carts out there but I suspect that you will need to stay with Shure,Grado, or Ortofon given your budget. In any event if the Stanton you have is doing the job you might just do well to stick with it. This is the second time you have given me a somewhat hostile response when I have attempted to be of assistance to you. If you do not wish me to respond to your questions in future ...Just say so and I will be happy to ignore your posts. The last time I looked this forum was about us helping each other and is not about scoring putdown points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 rick thanks for the information i appreciate it, lynnm: i am not trying to be rude or otherwise and i dont recall another time of giving a curt response, i agree this is a forum that helps a great deal and i actually like this site very much, i appreciate the help i receive here, i guess i took your first response the wrong way it just seemed to me that the response was more on showing ones superiority over me, instead of offering helpful advice like your 2nd response, i will admit i get a little hot when i feel i am being rediculed or looked down on for a lack of knowledge(especially when i am asking ? to try and improve my knowledge) so if i misread your intent i apolagize for my curt response Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 hello rick i forgot to say i have the older stanton model 681,(no letters after it) its a fairly nice rig, but it does seem to give me a fair amount of background noise, however i attribute alot of the noise to the albums themselves i just got a nitty gritty cleaning machine, but have yet to get a cleaning solvent, and i am trying to find a way to reduce the static build up also any suggestions on that thanks again Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Joe, Very few of the regulars here ever try to "show off" their knowledge at the expense of others (with a few exceptions - you know who you are!). Lynn was trying to help so before you started your search, you'd understand what you had in the first place. Chill dude! I had a Stanton 681EEE and it was a very good sounding cart but just got old. I wouldn't change if you're only planning to spend $100 to $150. There just isn't much out there any better in that range. For a little more, the shure V15 tops it pretty handily IMO and if you search, you may be able to find one at a reasonable price as they are stopping production. Used from a reputable seller is always an option too. BTW - They do make high output moving coil carts that can be used with your pre. The Benz Glider, HO can be found used for around $400 (maybe less) and would most likely give you significant improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Are they still selling the AT440 (Audio Technica)for $99.00? That's a heck of cartridge for the price. It's in your price range anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 "i forgot to say i have the older stanton model 681,(no letters after it) its a fairly nice rig, but it does seem to give me a fair amount of background noise, however i attribute alot of the noise to the albums themselves i just got a nitty gritty cleaning machine, but have yet to get a cleaning solvent, and i am trying to find a way to reduce the static build up also any suggestions on that thanks again Joe" I think you are on the right track. You should find a suitable cleaning solution to use with your Nitty Gritty and clean a batch of records.You will likely be suprised at the difference cleaning will make. I cannot specifically recommend a brand of solvent for the Nitty Gritty but presumably the manufacturer or retailer could. I cannot categorically state that the following solution is suitable for use with the Nitty Gritty A decent basic DIY cleaning fluid can be made this way: 1 gallon distilled water 8 oz. ( +/- ) Isopropyl Alcohol ( 99% not Rubbing Alcohol/compound which is 70% alcohol and contains lubricating oil). 2-3 drops of liquid dishwashing detergent. Optional: A small amount of a flocculant such as is often found in wine kits as a liquified clearing agent under various names. A flocculant is a material that binds to any solids in a solution and causes them to sink to the bottom of any containment device such as a tank,wine carboy or sewage lagoon. There are numerous other formulae available on the web that you might find useful. I used the formula above quite successfully until I purchased a Spin Clean Record Washer System from http://www.garagearecords.com and found that the concentrate available for the Spin Clean was so effective and economical that I now simply buy the concentrate. I don't KNOW if the Spin Clean concentrate is appropriate for the Nitty Gritty but I SUSPECT it would work fine. ( BTW I am using Firefox and cannot use Rich Text here...Thus the caps instead of boldface ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 lynnm very informative i appreciate the formula, and will deffinately try it, i read a thread about useing a cleaning wipe called "swipes" just to wipe the lp lightly before play and it is supposed to be electrostatically charged and attract all the dust etc away from the album, think i will try and mix a gallon of the formula first though, the nitty gritty should work with about any formula i would think as it is a manual use and the vacume on it is very strong should suck any cleaners right off there thanks for the help Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Given that your Nitty Gritty has a vacuum attachment you won't need to add a flocculant to the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Joe, You can find pure isoprophyl at any automotive store. It is the recommended fuel line deicer for fuel injected vehicles. I use methanol instead of the isoprophyl. Lynn, Flocculant? I thought we were supposed to be watching our language nowadays! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 good to know about the alcahol at parts stores, and i do appreciate the info Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Your Thorens TD160 probably has a TP16 pickup arm on it. The TP16 is actually a very good arm (I've used a TD160 in the past and still have TP16 arm lying around somewhere, unused). However I'm not sure it's well suited for most MC pickups. IMHO I think you would be better off with a high quality MM. In the price range you're looking at, the pickin's are slim IMO. Personally, I would go with something like a Shure V15 TypeV-mr. It can track virtually anything. Shure also has the advantage of their $20 stylus assembly trade-in, for a new one. A note about MM (MC) pickups: I'm not sure why so many people are using old pickups (many years old) with an old stylus assembly. These types of designs all employ a cantilever design, which where the cantilever pivot point is suspended through a grommet. Over time, the grommet material fatigues from the millions of minute movements of the cantilever. These grommets also deteriorate over time, regardless of whether or not the pickup was ever used. Normal everyday air contaminants and microscopic dust particles eventually find their way to the grommet suspension and gradually make it stiffer, changing its compliance. If you're a smoker or live near a more polluted urban area the suspension will deteriorate faster. Given enough time, even a "New Old Stock" pickup may no longer meet its original compliance specification. You can hear the difference. Its not just about the stylus tip! Side Note: The only pickup that avoids this problem is the Decca. Deccas are often referred to as a "cantileverless pickup" because of its unique design (no pivot grommet). However Decca are very picky about the arm, and even arm/table combination they are used with, and require a higher mass damped arm, perferably a unipivot bearing design. Not for the "light of heart". But they do somethings better than any other pickup. I recently acquired a Decca Jubilee. Just trying to find an additional arm wand to mount it. I'll be posting a review of this "last word" model from Decca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 "A note about MM (MC) pickups: I'm not sure why so many people are using old pickups (many years old) with an old stylus assembly." In my case I use my old V15 III (bought new) simply because I cannot afford either a new cartridge or stylus and also because it is one very good sounding unit. I suspect there are others in the same boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 ---------------- On 1/19/2005 6:40:26 PM lynnm wrote: "A note about MM (MC) pickups: I'm not sure why so many people are using old pickups (many years old) with an old stylus assembly." In my case I use my old V15 III (bought new) simply because I cannot afford either a new cartridge or stylus and also because it is one very good sounding unit. I suspect there are others in the same boat. ---------------- That may be a valid economic perspective from the pickup point of view, but its quite likely, that if the pickup is many years old, the gromment suspension compliance is no longer up to spec. When the grommet compliance changes (usually becoming stiffer), you're more likely to do damage to the groove walls of the LP. The compliance issue can be just as detrimental to your records as playing them with a worn stylus. From that perspective, ruining $$$$$ of vinyl, it's sort of a penny-wise/dollar foolish alternative (no offense). Often you are not going to hear the damage until its too late even though things may seem fine at first. Just some food for thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 "Shure also has the advantage of their $20 stylus assembly trade-in, for a new one." Unfortunately, Shure has cancelled that program Artto. Lynn, My favorite is still my V15 IV. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 The AT440 is available for $88 at MusicDirect.com. I'm thinking of trying one because despite using lynn's record cleaning machine and my probably at least ten year old ShureV15 I'm getting way too many crackles and pops on good looking records. Not trying to hijack here but I have heard the 440 can be a touch bright on the top end. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 What turntable are you using ? Are you sure you have the Vertical Tracking set right and also check your cartridge overhang. If these adjustments are out of spec you can get a lot of surface noise. There are many excellent setup guides available on the net. I am inclined to think that you will get more bang for you buck by correcting any errors you may have in your tonearm setup than replacing your cartridge. I'll do some poking around and see if I can point you to a helpful site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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