minn_male42 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 ---------------- On 2/1/2005 5:41:57 PM DrWho wrote: What I'm saying is that you can't measure equipment quality by the market and the people buying it. A lot of people spend crap loads on cables...does that mean those cables are worthwhile purchase? The majority of audio sales are in HTIB systems; does that make HTIB the epitomy of audio? There certainly is a market for compressors and expanders in the professional audio industry.... --------------- i am not trying to measure the "quality" of equipment by the market..... what i have been trying to get across is that there is NO MARKET for these devices in the home audio field.... if there was ANY MARKET at all - someone would be trying to sell all of us on buying one..... i think that you underestimate the power of the capitalist system..... you may criticize my debating skills all you want, but it is a FACT that NO ONE recommends these devices in the high end market.... i have asked several times for anyone to list a SINGLE MANUFACTURER that recommends using a compressor/expander with their home audio equipment..... Still Waiting........ Still Waiting....... i could wait forever and you will not find a single example.... if compressors/expanders were a "good idea" in the home audio area.... there would be at least ONE speaker, amplifier, or receiver manufacturer recommending them..... o.k. - show me ONE reviewer in an audio magazine that recommends using a compressor/expander in a home audio system... same result..... the few people on this thread that have claimed sonic improvements by using these devices are far fewer than the number of people who claim to hear improvements from expensive interconnects and speaker cables...... but at least there are discussions about the subject in nearly every audio forum... with proponents on both sides.... as well as reviewers doing professional reviews in audio magazines on the topic... have you EVER read another thread on a different forum in which posters recommended these devices in a home audio system????..... no - i haven't either... and it is not due to the fact that these outboard units are considered "professional" gear..... many, many people use professional parametric equalizers in their home theaters to eq their subwoofers..... behringer and rane are two of the professional brands that many consumers use for this purpose.... in total i have probably owned or tried at least 8 or 9 different outboard processors in my humble system.... i never said that i have the best system out there... but the distortion and added noise is very obvious even with my stuff...... and every unit i tried had the same problems to different degrees.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSJ Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 in the late 70s early 80s about the time mo-fi got going i bought a pair of ev speakers from a dealer that sold dbx dbx was fairly new then at least to me he showed the dbx unit using mo-fis and the best stuff he had in the shop the first time i heard dbx on a record was mo-fis version of abby road wooooow what a difference it made much clearer it made the music stand out i could not imagine how that record could sound any better but it did he also showed it with a record that had lots of ticks and noise with the dbx turned on you would hear almost no noise it also made worn out records sound cleaner and more natural i was sold i think anyone should be able to see why leading electronic makers would not promote using dbx no matter how good dbx is it would be like saying our stuff is ok but to make it better you will need to buy this no customer ever wants to hear this it would make it very hard to convince a lot of people that they were making a good choice to begin with that is a simple matter of fact in the capitalist system russ keeps talking about mo-fi made some of the very best sounding records ever and a lot of people know about them but they still went bankrupt just because a lot of people dont know about something doesnt mean anything lots of good restaurants go out of business every day but macdonalds is still around what you say does not make any sense at all how many expensive ads you can buy will often make the difference if you make it or not it usually has little to do with how good your mouse trap is i do not want to make any body upset or sound mean but i have to say that russ talks to people like a very angry ugly talking little girl this is just my view joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 ---------------- On 2/1/2005 8:41:57 PM JSJ wrote: in the late 70s early 80s about the time mo-fi got going i bought a pair of ev speakers from a dealer that sold dbx dbx was fairly new then at least to me he showed the dbx unit using mo-fis and the best stuff he had in the shop the first time i heard dbx on a record was mo-fis version of abby road wooooow what a difference it made much clearer it made the music stand out i could not imagine how that record could sound any better but it did he also showed it with a record that had lots of ticks and noise with the dbx turned on you would hear almost no noise it also made worn out records sound cleaner and more natural i was sold i think anyone should be able to see why leading electronic makers would not promote using dbx no matter how good dbx is it would be like saying our stuff is ok but to make it better you will need to buy this no customer ever wants to hear this it would make it very hard to convince a lot of people that they were making a good choice to begin with that is a simple matter of fact in the capitalist system russ keeps talking about mo-fi made some of the very best sounding records ever and a lot of people know about them but they still went bankrupt just because a lot of people dont know about something doesnt mean anything lots of good restaurants go out of business every day but macdonalds is still around what you say does not make any sense at all how many expensive ads you can buy will often make the difference if you make it or not it usually has little to do with how good your mouse trap is I do not want to make any body upset or sound mean but i have to say that russ talks to people like a very angry ugly talking little girl this is just my view joe ---------------- LOL so even a "cool newbie" resorts to personal attacks...... BTW - a paragraph or two might make your comments easier to read what type of system did you hear the dbx units on?.... on many mid-fi to low-fi systems a compressor/expander WILL produce a very noticible improvement... and as was mentioned earlier in this thread - BBE does produce several units aimed directly at that market.... but there is nothing aimed at the high end market!!! and you still avoid the other question - if this technology makes the sound in your home sound so much better, why isn't anyone producing this type of consumer compressor/expander for the high end home market today??? you are another person who underestimates the extreme amounts of disposable cash that many, many people have available to "tweak" their systems.... do some reading online and you will find $600 wood knobs to replace the metal knob on your volume control, $10,000 interconnects, and many other "tweaks" that cannot be proven that they improve the sound..... and yet they are sold - people lay out the cash and try to improve the sound in their system.... i personally know the owner of a small cable company (just the owner and 4 employees) that sells a $10,000 RCA to RCA cable - 4 ft long.... they sell quite a few - mostly overseas.... but they do sell them!!!..... additionally - none of these companies that produce these "tweak" products or expensive interconnects do much if any advertising... if these compressor/expanders could really improve the sound in a home situation, someone would be building them and selling them like crazy... i do have to admit though - i've never been called a "very angry ugly talking little girl" before..... has got to be the most "creative" personal attack that i've ever received....... LOL and if you haven't yet figured it out "newbie", personal attacks are usually made by people who cannot come up with any rational arguments to support their position...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 BTW - a paragraph or two might make your comments easier to read I thought (above) that you said you never attacked people? In my humble opinion, this is an unnecessary, veiled attack. Furthermore, it (again, in my opinion) goes to illustrate what some have been trying to tell you about your mode of presentation. Yep... me thinks me nailed it, Charles Winchester! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Well, the dude did comment he posted like very ugly little girl. Kinda like a fat chick that you insulted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 ---------------- On 2/1/2005 9:19:59 PM minn_male42 wrote: i personally know the owner of a small cable company (just the owner and 4 employees) that sells a $10,000 RCA to RCA cable - 4 ft long. ---------------- Would one of these cables work with a dbx unit, or would I need a special companding cable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 ---------------- On 2/1/2005 9:31:09 PM Coytee wrote: BTW - a paragraph or two might make your comments easier to read I thought (above) that you said you never attacked people? In my humble opinion, this is an unnecessary, veiled attack. Furthermore, it (again, in my opinion) goes to illustrate what some have been trying to tell you about your mode of presentation. Yep... me thinks me nailed it, Charles Winchester! ---------------- asking a newbie on the forum to add some paragraphs so his posts are easier to read is an attack???? i really like to be able to read an insult directed at me in the first reading without having to read it twice to understand it!!! LOL wow!.... you must have missed out on the many SET vs push-pull tube wars or the tube vs SS wars in the past on this forum.... they were dragging the bodies out of here in those "discussions" let's sum up! several posters have blatantly made personal attacks against me - direct insults!...... and then we have other people who criticize my "mode of presentation" and what they consider "veiled attacks"..... as another moderator on a different forum once posted - "it does not advance your position to attack the messenger" LOL come on folks - i thought we were discussing compressor/expanders in your home system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 ---------------- On 2/1/2005 9:38:18 PM Parrot wrote: ---------------- On 2/1/2005 9:19:59 PM minn_male42 wrote: i personally know the owner of a small cable company (just the owner and 4 employees) that sells a $10,000 RCA to RCA cable - 4 ft long. ---------------- Would one of these cables work with a dbx unit, or would I need a special companding cable? ---------------- no you have to get the special cables that are thinner on the input side and thicker on the output side.... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 "several posters have blatantly made personal attacks against me - direct insults!...... and then we have other people who criticize my "mode of presentation" and what they consider "veiled attacks"....." But you like it Russ. At least you're getting attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 ---------------- On 2/1/2005 9:43:15 PM mike stehr wrote: "several posters have blatantly made personal attacks against me - direct insults!...... and then we have other people who criticize my "mode of presentation" and what they consider "veiled attacks"....." But you like it Russ. At least you're getting attention. ---------------- and it gives me good practice at self-control! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 ---------------- On 2/1/2005 9:38:28 PM minn_male42 wrote: wow!.... you must have missed out on the many SET vs push-pull tube wars or the tube vs SS wars in the past on this forum.... they were dragging the bodies out of here in those "discussions" ---------------- Now there's a thought! Could you hook up a dbx unit to a SET amp to make it think it's a push-pull? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 ---------------- On 2/1/2005 9:47:53 PM Parrot wrote: ---------------- On 2/1/2005 9:38:28 PM minn_male42 wrote: wow!.... you must have missed out on the many SET vs push-pull tube wars or the tube vs SS wars in the past on this forum.... they were dragging the bodies out of here in those "discussions" ---------------- Now there's a thought! Could you hook up a dbx unit to a SET amp to make it think it's a push-pull? ---------------- on a serious note.... one of the concerns of using compressors/expanders and equalizers in general is how it puts additional demands on the amplifier in the system.... expanding the signal requires more amplifier power.... overuse of the device can easily result in clipping the signal.... good sound technicians/recording engineers are very aware of that fact.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Oh, then I had it backwards. Hooking a dbx to a push-pull would turn it into a SET. Thanks but no thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSJ Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 the store where i first heard dbx boxes sold a lot of brands the stereo that had the dbx was a linn record player with a mcintosh amplifier and mcintosh controller and the best ev speakers the kind of ev speakers they had are not for sale anymore they tried to make speakers for home use for a while after the 1950s but nobody seemed to know who ev was thats what i am trying to say to you but you only seem to want to fight people my klipsch horns have ev speakers inside them see what i am trying to get you to understand you sound so miserable maybe i should not call you a litte girl i am sorry i did that i am starting to think that maybe you should think about going to church it will make you feel better i promise you that much joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 ---------------- On 2/1/2005 9:58:26 PM JSJ wrote: the store where i first heard dbx boxes sold a lot of brands the stereo that had the dbx was a linn record player with a mcintosh amplifier and mcintosh controller and the best ev speakers the kind of ev speakers they had are not for sale anymore they tried to make speakers for home use for a while after the 1950s but nobody seemed to know who ev was thats what i am trying to say to you but you only seem to want to fight people my klipsch horns have ev speakers inside them see what i am trying to get you to understand you sound so miserable maybe i should not call you a litte girl i am sorry i did that i am starting to think that maybe you should think about going to church it will make you feel better i promise you that much joe ---------------- please - no negativity at all here..... please add some paragraph breaks in your posts joe.... it is very difficult to read your posts! just for your information - i am not miserable and i am not fighting with people..... i am trying to have a discussion on using compressors/expanders in home audio systems.... yet some people tend to bring up side issues.... i sold ev speakers for about 4 years at an electronics distributor - they were, of course, professional speakers - but still very good.... if i hadn't found my KLF-30's used at a pawn shop for only $600, i would have bought a pair of the ev SX300's - a two way speaker with a horn on top and a 12" woofer.... not much to look at in the plastic enclosure, but a very good sound! i am very curious as to what ev speakers were in a home audio place in the late 70's early 80's..... as you mentioned, ev stopped making home speakers long before that..... interesting.... i will take the "going to church" comment under advisement...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 ROTFLMAO!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSJ Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 russ it is not a discussion when you are always talking at people and telling them that they are wrong and you are right and that they dont know what they are talking about and what they know that they like you just sound like you will not be happy until everybody agrees with you and that is why i said you should go to church at church you will learn that everybody will never agree but thats ok because one day it will not matter anyway by the way ev did make speakers for people to use in their living rooms maybe you are to young to know about them mine were a box about the size of the famous jbl 100 with three speakers inside a twelve inch bass speaker a midrange speaker and what they called a super tweeter for the high sounds it had the same high range speaker that the recording speaker sentry 500 had you should stop trying to explain why you are so mad all the time and think about what jesus had to say I hope you listen to the other people here talking about your divorce was wrong and they should not talk about you that way but you still make people mad when you talk to them so badly just my view joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 ---------------- On 2/1/2005 10:28:34 PM JSJ wrote: russ it is not a discussion when you are always talking at people and telling them that they are wrong and you are right and that they dont know what they are talking about and what they know that they like you just sound like you will not be happy until everybody agrees with you and that is why i said you should go to church at church you will learn that everybody will never agree but thats ok because one day it will not matter anyway by the way ev did make speakers for people to use in their living rooms maybe you are to young to know about them mine were a box about the size of the famous jbl 100 with three speakers inside a twelve inch bass speaker a midrange speaker and what they called a super tweeter for the high sounds it had the same high range speaker that the recording speaker sentry 500 had you should stop trying to explain why you are so mad all the time and think about what jesus had to say I hope you listen to the other people here talking about your divorce was wrong and they should not talk about you that way but you still make people mad when you talk to them so badly just my view joe ---------------- joe, where do i start? first of all - you list your age as 47.... i turn 46 next week.... secondly - i am not mad.... please show me where i am "explaining that i am mad all the time"...... really - show me.... thirdly - my spiritual life is my own and not open to discussion.... and personally, i find it extremely offensive when someone that doesn't know me presumes to lecture me on my spirituality!!! you are relatively new to this forum and i have no idea what other forums you may or may not participate in.... but there is one general rule across the board.... no discussions about politics and/or religion.... just about everything else is fair game... fourthly (is that a word?) - i am expressing my viewpoint as to the question in this particular thread.... i would be expressing the same comments if we were sitting down across the table over a cup of coffee or a beer.... does a strong opinion offend you? it seems so from your comments.... and finally - PUT SOME PARAGRAPH BREAKS IN YOUR POSTS!!!...... it is very difficult to read your posts with no breaks..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Run Away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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