Guest " " Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 It seems sort of incongrueous, but its true. The problem is caused by higher potential output capability from the larger driver going through too small of a throat and the resultant throat overload distortion. The smaller driver in a larger horn doesn't suffer from that but rather diffraction effects in the horn, causing distortion which has nothing to do with the output level. It would be best, of course, to use a matched combination, but there are times when some prefer larger diameter drivers with greater power handling capabilities in smaller sized horns for better dispersion characteristics and more control. It depends on the application. I think it was on the Decware website that was touting a particular 2" driver on a smaller horn as being the cat's meow - they said it sounded better. thats intresting. so I could take my 2inch throat k-4m adapter and mount it on the flang of an altec 511b? The klipsch k-4m adapter lets you mount four k-55 drivers to a 2inch throat horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 If the ouput of the larger driver was kept at a "reasonable" level, that is, not overdriving the horn, it would just lower the efficiency a bit. In some cases, not an entirely bad thing. I should also mention that the larger driver (such as a 2") in a smaller horn (such as a 1.4") the phase is relatively maintained, where the smaller driver in a larger horn will have noticable phasing problems. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamer Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 It seems sort of incongrueous, but its true. The problem is caused by higher potential output capability from the larger driver going through too small of a throat and the resultant throat overload distortion. The smaller driver in a larger horn doesn't suffer from that but rather diffraction effects in the horn, causing distortion which has nothing to do with the output level. It would be best, of course, to use a matched combination, but there are times when some prefer larger diameter drivers with greater power handling capabilities in smaller sized horns for better dispersion characteristics and more control. It depends on the application. I think it was on the Decware website that was touting a particular 2" driver on a smaller horn as being the cat's meow - they said it sounded better. thats intresting. so I could take my 2inch throat k-4m adapter and mount it on the flang of an altec 511b? The klipsch k-4m adapter lets you mount four k-55 drivers to a 2inch throat horn. Just for the record,Bill Martinelli has told me recently that I could mount the BMS 4592 coaxial driver to my 511B's with an adapter he sells.He claims the only noticable effect would be a loss in efficiency,mainly dictated by the horn itself.Not sure of the output of a BMS 118db driver on the 511 horn. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Just keepin' this thread alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 where's the CAD file ... I wanna whip one out ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdnfay Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 Hey Guys, The plans I used were my own. Compared to the plans Neanderthal came up with they are very close. I will put my notes together and get it down on paper. The crossover points I used were 700/7500. Why 7500 you ask? In the beginning the plans were for a 2-way. I tried several hf drivers and couldn't afford the high-end drivers(Tad,etc.). none of them seem to have any sparkle. I settled on the Selenium 405ti. Very sweet, warm mids and upper mids. So to keep as much of the mids as I could and add the sparkle I went 3-way. A JBL 2404. I wanted to try an electronic crossover, but I'm very happy with Al's ES networks. Just remember if you use ES networks, your woofers need to be at least 6 ohms for series wiring. I have a "Boo Boo" to correct. In the template description a few responses ago. The materisl used was 3/4 x 1 1/2 not 1 x 1.5. Big D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Bigdnfay, I am very glad you posted! thanks. We look forward to you posting your notes when you get it all down on paper, I assure you we will all be very grateful! BTW are you still loving the sound? Best regards from sunny El Salvador, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capo72 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Glad you came back. I'm also glad this thread was revived. It seems alot of people are interested in your plans. Your help is greatly appreciated. Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdnfay Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 Thanks Guys, Yes I'm still crazy about these speakers. Sitting here at the computer listening to Seal Best 1991-2004 acoustic version. If your a Seal fan, this is a must have. I'll be happy to answer questions to the best of my ability. Keep in mind I'm no expert. Big D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Just dropped in to let you fellas know that my emails got through and I heard back from Darell and that he would be popping in. He beat me to it I see, cool! Thanks alot BigD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 It seems sort of incongrueous, but its true. The problem is caused by higher potential output capability from the larger driver going through too small of a throat and the resultant throat overload distortion. The smaller driver in a larger horn doesn't suffer from that but rather diffraction effects in the horn, causing distortion which has nothing to do with the output level. It would be best, of course, to use a matched combination, but there are times when some prefer larger diameter drivers with greater power handling capabilities in smaller sized horns for better dispersion characteristics and more control. It depends on the application. I think it was on the Decware website that was touting a particular 2" driver on a smaller horn as being the cat's meow - they said it sounded better. thats intresting. so I could take my 2inch throat k-4m adapter and mount it on the flang of an altec 511b? The klipsch k-4m adapter lets you mount four k-55 drivers to a 2inch throat horn. Just for the record,Bill Martinelli has told me recently that I could mount the BMS 4592 coaxial driver to my 511B's with an adapter he sells.He claims the only noticable effect would be a loss in efficiency,mainly dictated by the horn itself.Not sure of the output of a BMS 118db driver on the 511 horn. Greg thats as good as gold for me. I just went out and brought my 511b's in, and have 8 k-55's ready for mounting to the klipsch k-4m driver adapters. The indirect word from PWK is that the adapter will produce 115db under idea conditions. So if I loose some thru the 1 inch throat, that's fine. I don't have any autoformers in my al-4 xovers, so there is no autoformer to worry blowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim E Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 I'm with you Duke, this needs to be finalized for the DIYer's. Willin' to help if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Very nice 3D model there Jim. I like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim E Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Thank you Jordan. I've had this sitting in the files for quite some time. There is some confusion on the driver(s) and "motor board" configuration that prevented a completed drawing. I know others have drawn out the Jubilee but, I still wonder about the passive radiator and motor board (baffle) layout. Here is a rear view of the Belle with the back removed exposing the baffle detail: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 I have almost exactly what you have. I entered it in TurboCAD yesterday. If I could figure out how to attach a file I'd include it. My question is, what's on the inside? There must be some internal channels, but nobody has talked about them. Edgar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Jim and Edgar, I sent you both an email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdnfay Posted June 25, 2006 Author Share Posted June 25, 2006 This is the design I chose and built. There were several configurations discussed here. I decided not to use a passive radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdnfay Posted June 25, 2006 Author Share Posted June 25, 2006 With motorboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 This is the design I chose and built. There were several configurations discussed here. I decided not to use a passive radiator. How did you determine the shape? It looks like this has a conical initial expansion across the front panel, followed by a linear section along the sides, followed by a slight expansion across the back, followed by much more rapid expansion once it turns around and comes forward again. While that's a pretty coarse approximation to a tractrix, perhaps it's close enough to still be effective. You can get away with a surprising lot of "close-enoughs" in speaker construction. Thanks, Edgar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim E Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 BigD, I followed your build of the Jubilee. Your design version without the passive radiator certainly makes the most of the given criteria that was posed. A very nice build. I really would like to know how they sound. Is the bass extension comparible to the KHorn? With fewer folds I would expect the bass to be somewhat cleaner and better defined. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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