Preparing for Jubilee build

[Edgar]

Can I ask what might come across as a rude question?

I understand, and generally agree. However, according to the Klipsch website the Jubilee is discontinued.

I discovered this forum less than a week ago because I was browsing the Klipsch site to find out what ever became of the bass horn that was described in that old issue of JAES. Thinking that it had probably been made into a product, I was hoping to someday be able to purchase one. One thing led to another, and here I am not only hoping to someday be able to build one, suddenly I'm modifying it as well.

My head is spinning.

Greg

[Coytee]

The Jubilee (as I understand) is avaialbe as a commercial product

http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=908

This is NOT the version we listened to when we were at Hope. We heard the bass bin attached to the K-402 horn / K-69 driver. These parts as I understand it, are the pieces that Roy Delgado himself is planning on putting together as his own personal pair.

When in Hope, he was working on perfecting a passive crossover for it but I understand an active is his REAL choice for those who want to do it "right".

[Edgar]

The Jubilee (as I understand) is avaialbe as a commercial product

Oh, no; this is terrible. I honestly did not know that the Jubilee was still in production. When I searched for "Jubilee" on the Klipsch site, it sent me to the "Discontinued" section.

This is difficult, but under the circumstances I don't think that I can offer the CAD drawings without approval from Klipsch. I am sorry, but I have to respect their right to earn a living. Coytee, thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Greg

[Guest " "]

The Jubilee (as I understand) is avaialbe as a commercial product

Oh, no; this is terrible. I honestly did not know that the Jubilee was still in production. When I searched for "Jubilee" on the Klipsch site, it sent me to the "Discontinued" section.

This is difficult, but under the circumstances I don't think that I can offer the CAD drawings without approval from Klipsch. I am sorry, but I have to respect their right to earn a living. Coytee, thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Greg

You didn't know Chris works for Klipsch's intellectual property enforcement division and he just wanted you to send him the evidence?

Just kidding.

[Coytee]

2 comments

1. Nothing I said was directed at you per se' so don't take it from a personal perspective.

2. Roy Delgado himself has commented here so to be frank with you, I don't know WHAT to think... it really blew my mind that he'd chime in on a thread like this...

I was just voicing my curiosity in a more broad sense...

Now you've got all the others collecting their cash so they can put a contract out on me

[au].................................... (me leaving town) lol

[DrWho]

I was thinking the same thing Coytee, but lacked the elegant words. Thanks for bringing it up.

The Jubilee is very much in production and by all means let me know if

you need help obtaining a pair. I think it's because of Roy's passion

for these speakers that he is working so hard to make it available.

Heck, if you don't like the ugly black color you can get them ordered

raw and finish them yourself (though I know many here including myself

dig the raw birch color).

The passive crossover was provided by Roy as an alternative to the more

expensive active approach. And Roy has no problem letting us know what

settings need to be achieved for all the different units out there.

I think Roy's comments in this post were more of a nice way to say "why

the heck are you bothering if you can't verify the results?" Any

speaker design is full of tradeoffs and the Jubilee we heard in Hope is

a culmination of the Klipsch approach to loudspeaker design. That

Klipsch sound that brings us all here is just the product of compromise

priority they put into their designs - and is according to Roy why all

the other different horn types sound different (different compromise

priority). Don't get me wrong...speculation is fun, but perhaps some of

the "non-ideal" whatevers are actually intentional? I would think

someone devoting everything they know into a particular speaker would

have already tried most everything we can think of. Heck, they get to

play with stuff all day long over there!

Anyways, there I go rambling again...

Many of us claim to be "fans" of the Jubilee...I think there's only one

so far from the forums who is putting their wallet where their mouth

is...

[jorjen]

OK. I posted this question in a thread after the Pilgrimage and never got an answer.

I would be more than willing to veneer a set of factory produced KPT-KHJ-LF/Jubilee bass bins if I chose to do so. So, what is the cost of a set in raw Birch? I for one would like to know if the commercial units are affordable or not. Then we shall see. If they are what I think they are, then you have one BIG reason I can think of that folks have to resort to DIY for home use.

[sunnysal]

Please don't forget that there is a difference between DIY nuts like us trying to build a DIY jubilee clone and people trying to produce and sell plans, kits and complete speakers. It is very common in our wierd little DIY audio community for professionals to share information with hobbiests.

For an idea look at Pass Labs DIY section where mr. Pass shares information about his amplifiers to the DIY community while producing amps for sale with the same technology.

If Klipsch or Roy have misgivings about some of us trying to DIY a Jubilee for our own use they could voice that concern and I assure you we would back off (I assume everyone agrees). However it seems no one minds that we Klipsch-loving tinkerers try to recreate this bass bin as mentioned in the now famous JAES article.

Regards,

Tony

[Coytee]

I can sympathize with anyone who might want to make one because of the mental challenge, skill challenge, cash savings, (insert any reason). Frankly, Ive built half my house because I dont want to pay someone else, or the challenge all similar ways of thinking so I DO understand the mental process.

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I just think its very rude & disrespectful to be so blatent about it on the hosts website.

Id rather look at it like this if it were me

Im a guest on their site. If I want to (essentially) copy one of their ideas, then the burden of respect is on me to NOT be flagrant on their website unless THEY OK it, rather than presume its ok until one of them tells me NOT to.

In other words, if a piece of unsigned but private property out in the middle of nowhere is beckoning me to ride my 4 wheeler on it, its my duty to NOT do so until I get express permission from the owner that its ok. The opposite of that is, its ok for me to trespass on their property until they tell me not to?? Is that how anyone would like strangers (or even friends) to treat (your) property? Im sorry, but respect for others property comes first and the default setting HAS be, you are not allowed to do so, until you are told otherwise

Perhaps reasonable people will simply differ with me but to me, its that simple.

Mike (Dr. Who), its quite possible there will be another order in for a pair of Jubilees and if it happens, theyll both be in the greater Knoxville area. I got the go ahead from the wife tonight. I also agree Roys comments might have been as you said why are you trying if you cant measure it perhaps hes even flattered that anyone would try. I have no idea what he might think and its not my (nor anyones) burden to wonder what he might think.

Our burden (as a society and guests here) is to respect their intellectual property and if ya want to play the game, either pay the piper or dont. Just dont flaunt what youre doing on the Pipers website.

Ill get off my soapbox now and gently into the sunset, go.

[au]........................................................

[jorjen]

Both you fellas bring some valid and insightful points to the table. I for one would never, and I mean never puposely step on the toes of anyone from Klipsch. I have far too much respect for and loyalty to the company, the employees and their product. When I had my shop back in the '70's and '80's, I sold hundreds of pairs of Heritage and absolutely hated to sell anything else. So, i feel in my own small way I have proven my allegiance and am very proud of that fact. I would never want to do anything to tarnish it.

Coytee, no soapbox here man, I appreciate your views and feelings on this isssue. In fact, just about everything that you have said is exactly how I generally would look at things. That is the way I was raised, you know, old school. But I guess in this instance I feel like if Klipsch does not want to or cannot for some reason bring this product into the home market, then I may have to do it for myself. Remember what they say about the sincerest form of flattery.

Now, as far as the plans, kits, etc. thing goes, I suppose I did not really consider the bigger picture in all the excitement so to speak. Since Klipsch does offer the KPT-KHJ-LF in the Pro/Commercial line, I suppose you are right and it would not be the coolest thing to hype the plan/kit deal. Unless of course by some wild turn of events we are endorsed in some manner to do so.

Now, for the third time....HOW MUCH ARE THEY? []

I will do my own topend. However, If I cannot afford the bass cabinets I may find myself building a set of Dana's V2 bins instead of the Jubes anyway. Smaller footprint, etc.

[DrWho]

I think they're around $8500? for the loaded bass bin and the big horn with a K69 driver. I know it's just slightly more than a new pair of khorns ($7500?)

Btw, it'd be real cool if you got Jubilees Coytee...it would double my desire to just happen to be passing through Tennessee []

I think the highest probablity for an "endorsed" kit form would be straight from the Hope factory itself. Arguably it should be cheaper for everyone involved and making finishing a whole heck of a lot easier. The only hurdle after that would be a pretty HF section. If you ask me, I say tuck them into the corners and put a big scrim up to cover the entire corner of the room. And then you can hide acoustical treatment and employ dramatic lighting if you want it to look cooler.

[Coytee]

Jordan, although I mispelled your name in it [:$] I sent you a PM

[]

[Coytee]

Mike, you or just about anyone here are welcome out my way. We can sit back & have some fresh squeezed lemonaid & listen to tunes, or I can get you out on the innertube on the lake and see who wins...

who wins?

Yep... it's easy...

My job as boat driver is to kill you (without running over you [li])

your job as the person on the inner tube is to not be killed. So far I've lost every battle but everyone has left with a huge grin... including my mother..but I went easy on her.

Laughing uncontrollably & having a great time while getting soaked & sunburnt is what it's all about... well...except for the sunburnt part...I don't like that anymore.

[Jim E]

I agree. It is wrong.

So what happened to the "Home Version" of the Jubilee? Does anyone know for certain if these will ever be produced and made available to consumers by Klipsch?

In my opinion, the commercial version with the supplied HF horn would be large and overpowering in most home situations (unless you believe too much is always enough). Those puppys' are built to project into 200 + seat theatre auditoriums through a perforated screen. Keep in mind theatres are tuned to the SMPTE ISO 2969 curve (if installed correctly) which basically means they roll off 3dB per octave past 2 kHz and 4dB per octave past 5 kHz. I like the look of the commercial version but, the horn assembly would just be wrong in a living room setting.

I could see using the bass bin perhaps if you had plenty of room. IMHO one should think twice about buying these for home use. For the few who would want them I see no harm in DIY. There would be no profit in re-producing a speaker of this type. People who want Klipsch Pro gear will buy Klipsch not a copy or a look-alike.

For most people that build up their own audio systems and there are more than a few here, audio is a never ending experiment. A quest for audio nirvana. Like many others I enjoy this kind of torture.

Until and if Klipsch produces the consumer type perhaps the answer is just buy the bass bin and roll your own top-end.

[DrWho]

You are correct that the stock Jubilee HF section with the K1132 driver

has the falling HF response, but the Jubilee that Roy has been

demostrating for us is using the K69 driver where this isn't a concern

(ie, no EQ necessary).

As far as home use...the Jubilee doesn't project sound out in the

classical sense of the waveform not fully generating until far away

from the speaker. This of course happens to some extent with every

transducer, but in the case of the Jubilee I've been led to believe it

is a rather short distance like any of the rest of the heritage line.

For what it's worth, the LF section is completely identical to the home version PWK originally had in mind with the design.

The reason the HF section is so large is to maintain strong pattern

control all the way down to 500Hz. If you dont' want something so

monstrous there is the option to move to a smaller horn that loses

pattern control below 800Hz. The smaller horn is available from

klipsch, but of course requires a very different crossover - and in

this situation the need for an active is probably even more important.

[mikebse2a3]

My personnel opinion of the time I spent listening to the Jubilee version that Roy demonstrated for us and I believe impressed me the most was that it has a very seemless character about it.

I was very curious about the frequency extension and dispersion of the High Frequency Horn/Driver especially so I walked around the room and moved up and down vertically to hear just how well this combination works in a smaller room versus a large venue. On the music I listened to this Horn/Driver combination was remarkable to me and was as even and smooth in it's frequency range and spl level as I have ever experienced. You could literally walk any where in front of it (eccept of course if you put your ear close to a wall which created normally expected boundry effects from being to close to a wall) and the music's tone and balance were maintained.

This Jubilee that Roy demonstrated is so well behaved that in my opinion it will be at home in small rooms as well as large because it is under such good pattern control and because of this I also believe listening distance requirements can even be shorter than say for the Khorn simply because it very quickly comes together and sounds like one seemless source and this was with the passive and should be even better if Delay of the Top Horn is added to the system.

The KPT-402 / K-69-A qualities are as important to me as the Jubilee Bass Horn's Qualities are and thats why even if they had a pretty home version of a top horn I would most likely still want the KPT-402 Horn for what I believe is it's unique and very special qualities.

One other note: I'm buying the Jubilee for many personel reasons some of which are:

Because it is Klipsch's intelectual property.

Because PWK's and Roy's knowledge and dreams are in this design and to me they have proven to be VERY GOOD!

Because especially after my experience with the Pilgrimage and seeing and feeling the Dedication of the People of Klipsch and of the People I met from the Klipsch Factory frankly they need and deserve the dedication returned from us so that we all can continue to enjoy these wonderfull Speakers Made By Klipsch. I know of no company of it's kind that would have done for us what Klipsch and their People do at these Pilgrimages.

mike[]

[DrWho]

Mind sharing how much you paid Mike?

[Deang]

I was given these prices last year from Amy Reeder of Klipsch. I was given virtually the same numbers from the dealer here in town. Prices are for each (single unit).

"$3000.00 USDC for the Jubiliee system. $1550 USDC for the KHJ-LF portion."

Pricing is negotiable with a lot of this stuff. Klipschorns retail for $7500, but I paid with cash and took them home for $5500.

I've decided if and when I pull the trigger, I'll be paying Klipsch -- but just for the bottom sections. Options for the top section are almost limitless, and I think we'll see people enjoying them in a lot of different configurations.

I kind of share Mike's feelings on the matter. One of the reasons I bought new Heritage was because I was tired of seeing all the threads with posts crying the possible demise of Heritage, yet everytime someone asked for a suggestion for a speaker, these same people were sending them out to eBay. Bottom line: Klipsch/dealers won't bring products forward and introduce them into the consumer market if there isn't any real interest in them. I also think there's something to be said for paying someone to have something done right the first time. Ol'e Dean behind a tablesaw is a frightening sight.

[jwc]

The price has been quoted to me by Chuck Mulhearn as $2225/ bass bin. He and Roy have been very nice with exchange of emails about getting them. Come standard in "textured" black finish. Roy states what you get will look just like what was at Hope.

My wife has givin me the go ahead. I have a few reservations. Not real sure about the top horn section.

jc

[Deang]

These prices are all over the place. I can't believe the price would have went up almost $700 in less than a year.

C'mon Klipsch, you should be selling these factory direct to us idiots.