3dzapper Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 A few weeks ago, one of my Pyramid coupling capacitors leaked in my 300B amp causing the demise of one of my 300Bs.I found the problem and replaced the Pyramids with a pair of F&Fs I had in the back room. After a bout with a defective pair of EH Gold Grids and a pleasant experience with the eBay seller in exchanging them (probably damaged in transit in a basketball game). I ran the amps for 48 continous hours then several 12 hour days to break in the new tubes. They were starting to sound NICE! Well, I asked myself what are you going to do for permanent coupling capacitors for the 300? I looked on eBay, looked in the catalogs, looked on the internet and decided that I would get a pair of Angela Instrument PIOs. Then on a whim, I went to Partsconnexion.com's web site. They have genuine Jensen brand for less than Angelas so I called them. The .22@630V Jensen Copper PIOs came yesterday morning and I installed them at about 2PM. Not expecting much until they burned in, I was SHOCKED, shocked I tell you at the difference. I expected a slight improvement in the mids and treble but, I never in my wildest imagination expected the improvement in the bass that I found! I sat up on the couch for two hours listening last night after lights out in awe. There may be a slight coloration in the mids, but I am not sure. It could be that they are so accurate that the mids have been colored all this time and I was niave. I have become a dreaded capacitor connoisseur!!! Now I have to buy four 1uF Jensens for my Wrights. Then four 0.33uF and two 0.1UFs for my soon to be started Mark III in brass project. Woe is me, woe is me. This is so terrible, that if I don't curb my habit, I will have to move out and live in my Expidition. I will have become "mobile homeless"!!!!!!!!!! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 ---------------- On 2/24/2005 6:01:33 PM 3dzapper wrote: I have become a dreaded capacitor connoisseur!!! Now I have to buy four 1uF Jensens for my Wrights. Then four 0.33uF and two 0.1UFs for my soon to be started Mark III in brass project. Woe is me, woe is me. This is so terrible, that if I don't curb my habit, I will have to move out and live in my Expidition. I will have become "mobile homeless"!!!!!!!!!! Rick ---------------- Imagine that. Parts ain't "just parts"! Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 That't tough. Now you'll be challenged every time you recommend them as to how something that doesn't obviously measure better (and sometimes measures worse) can sound better. You must be imagining the difference. And what's more, the challenges often come from users of tube equipment they claim sounds better but measures much worse (as long as one carefully measures in the wrong place) than ss equipment. Nice choice. Enjoy them. (All interstage caps in my tube amps are Jensen, as are the crossover caps in the RF-7s.) Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 A terrible choice for a coupling capacitor. The improvement you are hearing is actually a degradation, but you have neither the training nor experience to recognize it as such. There is probably math that explains why a capacitor that can't hold a charge worth a squat sounds like liquid gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted February 24, 2005 Author Share Posted February 24, 2005 1+1=2? Second grade was the worst six years of my life. Actually I knew that PIO caps had superior sonic qualities but inferior reliability having had several "NOS" go bad on me including the Pyramids. My astonishment is how much better the Jensen is even in relation to those. I am anxious for the hundred hour mark to pass and see what they really can do. For sceptics of "burn in" on caps, I think that the difference is more due to the heat cycles equalizing the cap as the voltages applied. Similiar to annealing iron. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 It would be interesting to compare the electrical characterisics of the old cap and the new one. I can't believe the different audio performance arises from any magical characteristic. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 I can't believe the different audio performance arises from any magical characteristic. No "magic", just different in circuit behavior due to differences in DF, ESR, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 I think it's that difference in etc. that is hardest to comprehend. You wouldn't use someting as "high falutin'" (SP?) as that for a multi-section electrolytic filter cap, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Imagine that. Parts ain't "just parts"! Klipsch out. ---------------- I am curious where this expression "parts is just parts" came from. I guess this means to imply the idea that all different brands and quality of electronic components would be exactly the same in everly respect. I cannot recall anyone on this forum ever holding that position, so was wondering where this notion came from. It is being stated here like it was some kind of revelation that various brands of electronic components, like capacitors, of various construction, ingredients, and price, would be absolutely identical based solely on their stated values. Gee, not even all brands of old fashioned oatmeal are exactly alike. I have my favorite brand and tend to prefer it. Does anyone around here really think that all "parts is just parts"? There is a reason to straighten out those old US made 16 penny steel nails rather than use those Chinese 16 penny noodles they make today. C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted February 24, 2005 Author Share Posted February 24, 2005 Gil, The physical size difference is like three to one over the Pyramid in diameter. I don't know how much difference the copper plate has to do with it but, Jensen must use a longer plate with a thicker seperator to have the same capacitance. That may be the "secret". I bought them because I liked the looks of them in Jazman's Moondogs back when he posted some pics. Otherwise I would probably been cheap and bought the aluminum ones. They were not terribly expensive $17 and change each. I paid $9 for the NOS Pyramids. The 4 four the Wrights will be $104 a larger investment. I told the bride tonight. She said "Nothing I say is going to stop you anyways so go ahead and do it." Rick Edit:You wouldn't use someting as "high falutin'" (SP?) as that for a multi-section electrolytic filter cap, eh?" No fini, I'm on a fixed income. Actually I have a 60uF motor run cap as the input to the power supply. Can you say cheap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 It starts out innocently enough, just a few capacitors you tell yourself, but soon enough everywhere you look there will be an ordinary part or component that can be altered, mostly for the better. Where will it end? Where will it end? Have you had the opportunity to try some of that "enhanced air" C&S has available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 "I cannot recall anyone on this forum ever holding that position, so was wondering where this notion came from. It is being stated here like it was some kind of revelation that various brands of electronic components, like capacitors, of various construction, ingredients, and price, would be absolutely identical based solely on their stated values." If they measure the same, they will "sound" the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Rick, What I really meant to ask is, what should I use in this Fisher amp to replace the 2-section electrolytic filter cap (40 uf/400v, 20uf/300v)? I'm kinda looking for specifics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 I was joshing a bit. Measuring the quality of a cap across the working frequency spectum is not common. That goes for new or old ones. It may also be difficult to calculate just how much difference this will make in a given circuit. So it is no wonder that people are forced to follow advice which sometimes is that capacitor or inductor made in this way or the other is better. If the theory is that the measured qualities are different, and the cirucit is sensitive to it, then naturally we can agree. That sort of analysis does not occur in all cases. You see publications in various media where folks just blindly remover the factory units, replace them with units having purported superior qualities, and proclaim a big subjective improvement. It can't be as easy as that. - - - - I must say that people who purport to hear subjective differences in circuits which measure the same remind me of "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers", rather than "Them". The replacement people looks the same, sound the same, but something is wrong. Their souls have been displaced. Smile. And to complete the oddball thought, "Them" are giant ants in another movie. So I cringe a bit at anyone being "Them". Smile again. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted February 24, 2005 Author Share Posted February 24, 2005 LOL Thanks Gil. fini, I can't read the values but I would use a pair of these 100. micro Farad,450 VDC electrolytics to replace that cap. There is plenty of room for descretes in there and if you use plastic insulated 'lytics you can keep the isolated ground we were told about in a previous post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 "A terrible choice for a coupling capacitor. The improvement you are hearing is actually a degradation, but you have neither the training nor experience to recognize it as such." And I suppose you do? Subjective hobby based on preference. I really doubt Rick even listens to the same music you do, or at the same levels. If I was Rick I'd be pretty offended by that remark. I never have heard Jensen copper PIO caps, they may sound bad to me I dunno....but based on Rick's post I'm pondering trying them now. If the guy put the coupling caps in his amp and likes the improvement, so be it. It's his ears. Then to have you pop off and tell him he doesn't have the training or experience to recognize the degradation of the sound? I certainly hope you are joking.....if not, that's a rather lame comment....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted February 25, 2005 Author Share Posted February 25, 2005 "If I was Rick I'd be pretty offended by that remark." Nah Mike, I know that Dean is a complete loon that gets to use the computer there at the "home" once in a while so I humor him. And those crossovers, isn't it amazing what a savant can do when he concentrates! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 ---------------- On 2/24/2005 11:55:58 PM 3dzapper wrote: fini, I can't read the values but I would use a pair of these 100. micro Farad,450 VDC electrolytics to replace that cap. There is plenty of room for descretes in there and if you use plastic insulated 'lytics you can keep the isolated ground we were told about in a previous post. ---------------- Thank you! So with these filter caps, higher capacitance is OK or preferred? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 I would assume he's joking...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted February 25, 2005 Author Share Posted February 25, 2005 Dean's a jokester from way back when sputnik hit him on the head. fini, yes both, you can go larger( won't your SO be happy?) since you have SS rectifiers. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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