OT: HP vs. Torque

[Champagne taste beer budget]

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On 4/12/2005 7:43:24 AM Colin wrote:

So the questions are:

What four-wheel vehicle sold retail has the most horsepower for the least price?

What is the single BEST thing I can do to increase horsepower on my little pick-up?

What is the single CHEAPEST thing I can do to increase horsepower on my little pick-up?

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Good questions, Colin, though tough to answer easily. To keep it in the audio spectrum, let's address each one seperatly.

1) What amp has the most watts for the lowest price? Although there is probably a numerically correct answer, a lot of variables come into play, as you well know. The intended usage of the power, the other benefits you expect the amp to provide, the cleanliness of the watts, etc. I don't know that there's a correct answer for this one.

2) I'd say the SINGLE BEST thing you can do to improve horsepower is improving volumetric efficiency. Get the air in and out faster and smoother. Improve the air intake system and the exhaust system. However, the basic engine configuration you're working with does not lend itself well to improvements, IMHO. You're starting out with a fairly low HP vehicle to begin with, so an improvement of even 15%, which would be substantial, might only be another 15-20 HP. Enough that you'd notice, but I don't feel it would increase towing capability, speed, acceleration, or whatever you want HP for to be enough to offset the investment. Heck, you could put new all new caps and transformers in a mid 90's Technics receiver and it would be better, but I still wouldn't say it was a "good" receiver.

3) Others may have differing opinions, but I'd say the single CHEAPEST thing you can do to improve HP is to do proper maintenance, i.e. crisp tipped spark plugs, clear and clean air and fuel filters, proper timing adjustment, if possible, maybe even bump it up a couple degrees if you don't get a ping, correct valve lash, if adjustable, not using the A/C, etc. Much like your stereo, even if it's mediocre like mine, setting up your cartridge correctly, having clean, tight connections on all your wiring, running your power and interconect leads at 90 degrees, all the little things add up to get the most bang out of what you have to start out with.

I know a lot of the guys are into aftermarket mods to improve their vehicles, which I appreciate, but I have enough on my plate just trying to keep up with the continual changes in factory builds and EPA requirements. Cars are a business for me, not a hobby. 50-60 hours a week is enough, when I get home the last thing I want to see is a wrench. I figure that's why God invented fishing.

Well, it's taken me over an hour to write this here at work, work being the demanding mistress that it is. Hopefully someone else hasn't already given you the same replies I have since I started this reply.

[r.cherry]

look at specs.

buy something with a nice comfortable seat, your butt will thank you.

you could keep your truck and replace the engine with a nice supercharged 502.

torque and hp not an issue anymore.

[Tom Adams]

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On 4/12/2005 7:43:24 AM Colin wrote:

So the questions are:

What four-wheel vehicle sold retail has the most horsepower for the least price?

What is the single BEST thing I can do to increase horsepower on my little pick-up?

What is the single CHEAPEST thing I can do to increase horsepower on my little pick-up?

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Right now, I would have to say that the Subaru WRX-Ti is probably the best bang for the buck when it comes to performance. Its AWD configuration and engine package allow it to hang with a Porche 911 and it will flat spank those Z3/Z4's. And if you wanna go wild there's plenty of mods out there to push that engine into the 500hp range.

As for increasing Hp on your truck....you know what they say - there's no substitute for cubic inches!

Now if you truly want performance for cheap, just swing your leg over a Honda RC51 or a Suzuki GSXR1000 or a Kawasaki ZX10R. Anyone of those bike will humiliate a Z06 Corvette or 911 Carrera, or just about any car. Hell, my sport touring Yamaha FJR1300 will put the whoop-*** on Z3/4's, or Miata's, or Z cars or ???? Not that I would have any first hand knowledge of such.

Tom

[Olorin]

Now Tom, you must know that rally cars, roadsters, pure sports cars, and motorcycles adds up to four separate categories, each with its own reason for being, right?

[rplace]

Yet to see a WRX where the top drops. I have driven one, though. A while back a WRX owner and I swapped and played a game of tag. I enjoyed the WRX but would not trade my Z3 (dead) or current Z4 for one. Nice thing about america...lots of choices, none of them wrong.

[Tom Adams]

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On 4/13/2005 1:52:08 PM Olorin wrote:

Now Tom, you must know that rally cars, roadsters, pure sports cars, and motorcycles adds up to four separate categories, each with its own reason for being, right?

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Absolutely! And even with motorcycles, there's performance repli-racers, touring, sport-touring, dirt, and cruisers. And while many of us would love to own one of each genre, many of us don't have that kinda cake.

You have to admit though, the WRX achieves an excellent balance between sheer performance and usefulness - i.e. very high WAF. I mean, tell your wife that you've just spent $40K on a Z4 for the family. She'll probably kick your as*. Now tell her that you just bought a nice 4-door sedan for $32K to haul the kids to their baseball practice and the dog to the vet. Nevermind the fact that you'll set new time/distance records to the ball field or the grocery store or that the kids on the baseball team will think you're cool after doing 4-wheel drifts in the dirt around the ball field.

As for a WRX not having a drop top...yeah - I'll give ya that. But for the difference in price between a WRX and a Z4, you could probably find a custom body shop that'll do a conversion.

And I'll probably draw heat for this, but I promise you, it's not intended for you guys here.

(rant mode on)

If I had a dollar for everytime I've come across a brain dead Miata or a Z3/4, or 300Z or 350Z or M3 or Corvette or riced-out foreign cars or whatever owner up in the mountains when I've been on my mo'sickle, I'd probably be able to buy at least two more sportbikes. I bet 90% of the folks that own those type cars have absolutely no clue about performance driving. "Lookee me - I own a sports car, therefore I am." N-O-T!!! Worse yet is their complete disregard for others who wish to drive/ride at a some what more (ahem) spirited pace. They gas the hell out of it in the straight and then park it in the corners. ARGHHHH!!! And the ones I really love are the idiots who think it's ok to apex a corner IN MY LANE on a BLIND CORNER. Those people are the reason it should be illegal for me to carry a gun. Coming back from Canada last year my friend & I came upon some Nissan Z club (I assume) on the Skyline Drive. These as*holes were freight-training along at 45mph and due to the box-car effect (you know, one person gets on the brakes which causes a chain reaction down the line), we were down to 10 FREAKIN' MILES AN HOUR IN CORNERS! Do you think after following them for 5 miles any one of them eased over and waved us by? HELL NO! They just kept driving with their Cardigan sweater tied around their neck and their head up their as*. I'm usually very polite when I come up on folks on my bike. I don't dog them or weave back & forth or flash my lights. I'll wait for a proper opportunity to pass or go around if waved by. But when someone is purposely being a jerk, I will pass them with extreme prejudice and not feel a bit guilty. Yeah - I've come across sports car drivers who knew what they were doing and some that will slow a bit or pull over slighly and wave you around. But they few and far between.

(rant mode off)

Anyhow, like I said, I'm fairly certain none of you here are in this category.

Tom

[Joe Shmoe]

"They just kept driving with their Cardigan sweater tied around their neck and their head up their as*."

HAHAA...lol. Tom you kill me. I'm not much of a mechanic or a gearhead but just wanted to add... I'm a FORD TRUCK MAN!

[auto_xer]

WRX's are nice but the stock suspension needs work to make it really great IMO. The STI model is a little better in both power and handling.

I autocrossed a well prepped (for its class) WRX and it was a blast to drive.

Another AWD to consider is the Forester XT SUVish. They have the bigger 2.5 liter motor (from the STI). They are actually quicker in the 1/4 than a regular WRX.

[TBrennan]

For what it's worth Subaru station wagons are very popular with certain, uh, women.

Almost as popular as Jeeps and Hummers are with certain, ah, guys.

[TBrennan]

Tom---Last year I was driving up on twisty local roads from Astoria Oregon to Seattle in my brother's Focus station wagon. For about 25 miles I dogged some jerk riding in front of me on a BMW sport bike. This guy was playing the whole game: low bars, leather jacket and pants, Roger-Ramjet helmet; and here I was with the front bumper of a Focus about a foot off his ***.

[Griffinator]

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On 4/11/2005 10:09:45 AM Colin wrote:

With 130K on the dial, the handwriting is on the wall

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That's what you get for not buying a Honda....

[Griffinator]

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On 4/12/2005 7:43:24 AM Colin wrote:

So the questions are:

What four-wheel vehicle sold retail has the most horsepower for the least price?

What is the single BEST thing I can do to increase horsepower on my little pick-up?

What is the single CHEAPEST thing I can do to increase horsepower on my little pick-up?

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And the answer?

You really don't understand how little peak horsepower has to do with your vehicle selection.

Questions for you:

1) Do you plan on racing this pick-up?

2) Do you plan on basically keeping your foot to the floor on a constant basis when driving this pick-up?

3) Are you planning to have this pickup dyno-tested after you get done with whatever modifications we offer?

If your answer to two or more questions above is NO, then you don't need HP tweaks.

Peak horsepower is a basically meaningless statistic to the average daily-driver vehicle.

[formica]

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On 4/13/2005 10:02:49 PM TBrennan wrote:

For what it's worth Subaru station wagons are very popular with certain, uh, women.

Almost as popular as Jeeps and Hummers are with certain, ah, guys.

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LOL... always to the point, huh?

[michael hurd]

"What four-wheel vehicle sold retail has the most horsepower for the least price?"

Are you looking to drag race from stoplight to stoplight?

"What is the single BEST thing I can do to increase horsepower on my little pick-up?"

Reduce backpressure by freeing up the exhaust, and improving the intake tract. Exhaust headers ( or singular header for an L4 or L6 ) would be a good start. The design of the header collector allows the exhaust pulse from one cylinder to help scavenge the exhaust gasses from the next cylinder in the firing order, and to help pull in fresh air and fuel mixture.

What is the single CHEAPEST thing I can do to increase horsepower on my little pick-up?

Nitrous oxide injection. Dollar for dollar, still the cheapest power adder.

[Tom Adams]

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On 4/13/2005 10:07:38 PM TBrennan wrote:

Tom---Last year I was driving up on twisty local roads from Astoria Oregon to Seattle in my brother's Focus station wagon. For about 25 miles I dogged some jerk riding in front of me on a BMW sport bike. This guy was playing the whole game: low bars, leather jacket and pants, Roger-Ramjet helmet; and here I was with the front bumper of a Focus about a foot off his ***.

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Listen....no argument from me Tom (is there an echo in here?). I've come across those posers too. Easiest way to tell is look for the so called "chicken strips" (the un-worn portion of the tire's tread out near the edge) on their rear tire. If that "chicken strip" on their Gixxer 1K or Beemer is 1/2" or more wide, they're a poser. OTOH, if the rubber on the tire is all balled-up out to the edge and the tread is kinda chewed up, it's best to wave that dude by.

Tom

[picky]

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On 4/13/2005 10:07:38 PM TBrennan wrote:

Tom---Last year I was driving up on twisty local roads from Astoria Oregon to Seattle in my brother's Focus station wagon. For about 25 miles I dogged some jerk riding in front of me on a BMW sport bike. This guy was playing the whole game: low bars, leather jacket and pants, Roger-Ramjet helmet; and here I was with the front bumper of a Focus about a foot off his ***.

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So, Tom. That was YOU back there?

[Colin]

just trying to put off a nother car purchase when there is actually nothing wrong with the mazda, would like more power, comfort and storage though (no extended cab)...

[auto_xer]

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On 4/13/2005 11:41:29 PM Griffinator wrote:

And the answer?

You really don't understand how

little

peak horsepower has to do with your vehicle selection.

Questions for you:

1) Do you plan on racing this pick-up?

2) Do you plan on basically keeping your foot to the floor on a constant basis when driving this pick-up?

3) Are you planning to have this pickup dyno-tested after you get done with whatever modifications we offer?

If your answer to two or more questions above is

NO

, then you don't need HP tweaks.

Peak horsepower is a basically meaningless statistic to the average daily-driver vehicle.

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Any HP gains down low are going to translate into a torque increase.

Using K&N's cheasy little dyno graph for that intake, looks like about 8 lb/ft increase at 2000 RPM and almost 10 lb/ft at 3500 RPM. It makes decent power and has pretty good torque increases from 2500 all the way to redline. That is certainly useable.

[JJkizak]

One huge problem with electric battery powered vehicles is as the batteries

discharge the speed and torque slowly diminish. Electric towmotors work the same way. At half charge nothing happens or it is so slow it is put back on the charger. You constantly have to refill the batteries with distilled water and the battery life and performance diminishes over a 3 year period. After the three year period the battery usually has to be replaced because it is cracked and leaking. No car owner is going to put up with that kind of crap. Then there is the increased power consumption on the national electric grid which no one seems concerned about.

With the hydrogen powered vehicles the articles I read said the production of hydrogen from natural gas would equal the polution saved from running the vehicles on hydrogen. Now that's a real dumb deal.

JJK

[picky]

JJKIZAK: Everything you've said here about electric vehicles is true. But, you didn't incude the worst part: What do you do with all of the spent lead and acid from all those lead acid batteries you must replace every 3 to 5 years (there were 32 of them in each EV-1)? That was one "choking" point that GM tried to bring up again and again with the SIG's regarding the perilous side of manufacturing and owning electric vehicles. The SIG's "solution" was to have GM pay for their disposal! It's Unbelieveable what some of these groups expect! It was like "We just want everything our way! You figure out all of the problems!" So much for collaboration!