Video Editing Software: Sony Vegas Movie Studio+DVD, or Premier Elements?

[fini]

Anyone have experience with either? I have nothing to compare these with, am leaning toward the Sony software (on sale at Best Buy). These 2 programs are only available for the PC (I have a PC and a Mac).

Also thinking about picking up an external HD exclusively for video projects. Is 60-80 GB big enough? Do I have to load XP on it, too?

¡¡Muchas Nalgas!!

[Marvel]

fini,

I have Adobe Premier 6.5, and would switch to the new one if I had XP on the computer.

Sony's offerings are great, IMHO, and the smaller packages you mention are also good. Sony is supporting Sonic Foundry's products since the purchase and that bodes well for all end users.

I have used Vegas, again the big daddy, and find it as capable as Adobe's product. The interfaces are a bit different between the two.

What is your inteded use? Obviously to edit video, but to what degree? Most of these guys have demos you can install and try out. Adobes products are usually fully functional for 30 days, and Sony's works but you can't save (real PITA).

Depending on what you edit, a 60-80 second drive would be a good idea. I have a 60 Gig for a second drive in my video editing PC.

Marvel

[fini]

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On 4/21/2005 1:57:17 PM Marvel wrote:

What is your inteded use?

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Mostly "home movie", ala Jonas Mekas type stuff, out of my new Panasonic PV-GS120 MiniDV camcorder. I'd also like to get some 8mm, Super8 and 16mm stuff in a digital format.

And for what do you use these programs, Marvel? Job stuff, fun stuff? Thanks for the info!

[Marvel]

Mostly fun. I have made a tiny bit of money with them.

I worked in TV news in a former life, shooting 16mm FILM. Right when they got the cameras small enough for me to handle easily, they switched to video. The big separate deck and camera connected with a cable was about too much for me.

About three years ago a faculty member asked if I could help him do some teaching videos. He bought the software for me, I built the computer. He never got the job done. I re-edited the video for the school's presidential inauguration and they put in on a DVD (it really isn't very good as someone shot it for archival purposes and then they wanted to USE it).

I pretty much go for straight shots, cut and dissolves. I hate page curls and all that silly stuff. But that's just me. I helped the film club at the college where I work. Did the music for it, and edited some of the titles and inserted an animation sequence my son did for it.

==

Depending on how complicated you want to get, probably either of those packages would work for you. I assume your camera has a firewire connector. If so, you will need a firewire port in the PC (duh!), but a $25 card will do for that.

If you look at Pyro cards, they have bundles that include the card and software. Many different price ranges, depending mostly on the software.

http://www.videoguys.com/pyro.htm

I was subscribing to Videomaker, which is a great little mag. THe ads are worth a lot. Good tutorials and hints. Even getting good info once every couple of issues can be worth it.

Or... (will this never end?), browse to the DMN Forums and pick the software you are interested in and lurk (just like you do here!):

http://www.dmnforums.com

{edit} Removed references to Avid's free software, since, for the money the Adobe and Sony software has way more real features.

Marvel

[psg]

Funny, I'm downloading video via firewire in another window as I type this. I use kino under Linux to transfer digital video to PC and edit the movie. Then I export in raw DV format and convert it to DVD format using Nero under Windows XP. Just started this stuff a week or so ago!

Peter

[Marvel]

Linux, that user surly software! I've been trying to get Ardour (audio editing) working on a linux box off and on for weeks. Even with its faults, it's no wonder MS does so well.

What linux distro are you using?

Marvel

[toddvj]

I use Pinnicle Studio Version 8. Haven't really tried much else besides just experimenting. I like Studio 8 except that it takes a long time to render the DVD. For DVD authoring I use DVDLab. It is an awesome program, but you need your own MPEG encoder.

[Marvel]

Premiere came with an MPEG encoder (they license the Main Concept encoder as a plugin), plus I won a copy of Canopus ProCoder.

The longest thing I've done is about an hour and forty minutes of completed video.

[picky]

fini:

NLE: (non-linear editing) I've began working in MiniDV format 7 years ago, which was almost since it's introduction. Although I have not ventured into the offerings from Sony, I began using Pinnacle (when it was Version 1.0) and then grew tired of its quirkiness even in version 8. I have been using Adobe Preimere (for NLE) and Adobe After Effects (for special effects) ever since. Therefore, I have not seen a reason to switch to another brand of NLE software because the Adobe products fill the bill for me. Their main fault is a steep learning curve.

Hard drives: Do yourself a favor and opt for one around 250 gig. I use a Western Digital USB 2.0/Firewire 7,200 RPM drive on my desktop for editing and capture. I am running it on USB 2.0. I am not endorseing the brand, only the setup, as the brand you buy is less important. I never seem to run out of room, even on large, multi-camera projects. I archive my footage onto DVD's or tape when I get a project in the can. Then, I wipe the 250 gig clean, save for necessary files and then defrag. It works great. It was an afforable solution for me. Much more-so that a RAID setup.

OS: I recommend Windows XP Professional. It is so-o much more stable than former Windows environments. I cannot speak on Mac as I have zero experience. The "big guys" like PIXAR tend to use either MAC or a proprietary version of UNIX made by SGI (Silicon Graphics). I do have experience with using SGIs and they are among the most costly computers in exisitence. SGI bought out CRAY Supercomputers in the mid 1990s. SGI is strickly stuff for those with corporate links (as I was) or the independantly rich! (which leaves me out!)

Resources: Videomaker Magazine has a lot of good info. This month, they feature a buyer's guide which may be reviewed on-line at their site:

http://www.videomaker.com/scripts/index.cfm

"ROLL 'EM!"

[JJkizak]

You probably want to go with the cheaper stuff as the learning curve is much easier and easier on the wallet. As for converting the film its best to send it out to the pro's or someone you know who does a good job, since this is the "key" to keeping the quality at a high level. If you have a camcorder with a firewire output then have the film converted to the tape that is used in the camcorder then you can capture it easily into your editor. Otherwise you have to have an analog/digital converter to capture. Ulead and Sony make some quickie easy to learn editors. Memorizing about a thousand new video abbreviations and terms to learn editing is not that easy.

JJK

[Marvel]

Picky,

I forgot you did video work. Thanks for the input. I love Premiere, but you are tight, it has a steep learning curve. XP would be great (my two kids have XP Pro on their PCs) but I haven't wanted to spend the money yet. Win2K has been totally stable on both of my computers.

The important thing is don't worry about learning everything at once. When you see something you want to know how to do, then find out.

JJ,

I have a 16mm film my wife did while she took a class at a jr. college. I wanted to get it transfered to tape (miniDV so I could work on it some more). I found a place in Atlanta that only wanted $125. It is approx. 11 minutes in length. However, they don't use a regular telecine unit to do the conversion, so there is no chance of them ripping out the sprocket holes.

My daughter uses Avid, which she used in school. She also used Final Cut, but doesn't really like it a whole lot. Vegas is really a good product, but the layout is like using Sonic Foundry's Acid. There are fans of all of them, and all have their strong points.

I agree that most folks really don't need the high end products. Two to four video track and two to four audio tracks would be fine. A dozen effects and you're all set.

After Effects is way cool.

Bigger drives are always better. It works out to about 13 Gig for an hour of video.

Marvel

[picky]

Marvel: I am currently testing some new NLE software I picked up from Serif for around $100 bucks: MoviePlus 4. It even does a lot of the stuff that After Effects does for a fraction of the price. It's made in the UK and so far it's working pretty good. http://www.serif.com/MoviePlus/MoviePlus4/index.asp

I like Avid, too, except for the price (CHA-CHING!!!) It's an industry standard.

I'm an old Win2K user, too. NT also. But, I really do like XP Pro. All of my machines at work and home are running on it.

[Marvel]

I've been using Serif Page Plus for years, and you simply cannot beat it for the price.

If you aren't working with a production house you really don't need Avid. That really means most folks only need to buy what they can use to get the job done. No matter how inexpensive it is.

[mike stehr]

I have footage of four years of plastic dolls being blown up on the fourth of July with a analog sony camcorder.

I would love to have this edited and converted to a digital format.....at least 10 or 20 seconds here or there.

[Marvel]

Easy Mike. Is it 8 or Hi 8 tape?

Marvel

[DrWho]

Me and my bro are always making movies (sometimes for fun, and sometimes for other people) and we've got a lot of software available; adobe premier, final cut pro, Virtual Dub, MGI video wave, crap i can't remember the whole list (there's like 3 other expensive ones). Anyways, we both prefer using just the plain old Windows Movie Maker on the pc, or iMovie on the mac. In fact, there was not one thing we weren't able to do within those two programs that we couldn't get around by creative filming or just being creative with the program.

That said, I would highly recommend to begin making movies in WMM or iM and then expand into new programs as you need the extra features. The good thing about this approach is that it's completely free because it's all bundled software. We've got this one old program that we can use for blue and green screen effects, but we never use it because we've never been inclined to do anything requiring it. Final Cut Pro has some real cool features as well, but we never use them and that program takes FOREVER to render. We missed a deadline once for a multimedia presentation because the rendering screwed up the first time (but we didn't know it screwed up) and then by the time we realized, we had 20 minutes for 1 hour of rendering to finish. We actually saved ourselves by creating a movie on the fly (switching between multiple computers and cameras on the fly where we had bits and pieces that we were able to sync with a seperate audio source...but that's another story).

To compare iMovie and Windows Movie Maker....we can bust out movies faster in WM and the "burn to video CD" feature is very nice. You can do more with iMovie and it looks better, but it definetly takes longer (in all areas). iMovie is a lot more stable though.

I know it's cool and all to drop mega bucks on a really cool program, but there really is no need to. Some of our "clients" (haha, doesn't that sound cool) are continuously amazed when we tell them their movie was made in iMovie. In fact, I just finished a presentation that was shown tonight and the lady I made it for asked me how I was able to do all that with the video/picture footage she gave me. I told her the program made it easy and she was shocked when I told her it was "only" iMovie.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't parts of "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow" also made in iMovie? I do know that the whole film was put together on a single Mac, running consumer available software. Quite a shocker for Hollywood I'm sure.

Btw, if there's no real time limit on the films you're making, then there's no rush to go and buy some program. You will never find anything easier than iM or WMM for taking the movie off your camera and onto your harddrive. If you encode in the same format as your camera, then this process is also lossless and you can just save the original file. Make a copy and use the copy for editing in whatever program you choose. If you find iM or WMM not powerful enough, then you can always go find software that will do what you want and just make another copy of the original and go from there.

As far as pc requirements, the external HD is a very good way to go. You will not need to install any software on the HD. Just make sure that if you get a USB HD, that you have USB2.0 ports on your pc, otherwise the data won't be able to write fast enough. It would also be beneficial to max out the RAM on your pc. We've got 2GB on our video pc and there are times when more is needed. I would never recommend anything less than 1GB unless you don't mind it going really slow.

Here's a link to a great video making resource:

http://www.videohelp.com

Sometimes it takes a bit of searching, but that site seriously has all the answers, step by step tutorials, and links to freeware.

[JJkizak]

Marvel:

The WMM is a good idea for you for editing but the transfer from 16mm film to video is the key to maintaining the quality. Just make sure that the tape that they convert it to can be captured to your computer editor software. And do not use VHS, it is terrible (254 lines per mm) S-VHS is 400, 8mm is 400, mini-dv is 530, digital 8mm is 450, Beta-SP is 750.

JJK

[fini]

Good Lord, DrWho, there is a lot of info on that site! I have a headache!

I went ahead and picked up Sony Vegas Movie Studio+DVD at BB ($70 + tax after rebate). From what I read (at least the parts I understand!), it's very stable, which is big in my book. I understand it allows 3 video and 3 audio tracks. I am a bit confused about the audio. Does 3 tracks equal left, right, and center, or are they 3 stereo tracks that mix to one stereo track in the final product?

One knock on this software is it doesn't support AC-3. I doubt I'd be using that feature anyway...

[Marvel]

JJK,

The place in Atlanta who was going to do the transfer was going to put it on a mini-DV for us, so I could pull it back in to my PC with no trouble.

The newer version of WMM is barely okay. iMovie works very well. The first movie our college film club did was with iMovie (first version), and they managed to get a 40 minute movie done. Stressed the iMac a bit. Not enough cpu or memory, but it did work.

I only got all the Adobe products because I could get the educational pricing. At the time, the Digital Video Suite was around $425. That was for Premiere, After Effects, Photoshop and Illustrator. Premiere itself would only have been about $160. If you are doing it for education or school things, as I was, it was a great way to get them. They allow you to then upgrade, with regular upgrades, so you are not in the educational realm and can use them to make money. That's their whole intent anyway.

I would still tend to get Elements or the less expensive Sony product over using iMovie or WMM. At $75 give or take, you can't go wrong.

Digital8 and Mini-DV have the same resolution, because the both use a 4:1:1 compression scheme, and have over 500 lines of resolution. The camera portion of a Digital 8 make not be as good. Just like in audio, if the source isn't good, it won't matter what you record on. All consumer digital formats use a 5:1 compression.

Marvel

[JJkizak]

Marvel:

That's kool. The AC-3 deal just cuts the space in half while maintaining the same quality. Some of the older DVD players actually looked for AC-3 on the DVD disc and if not found it would spit out. Not so with the new players so PCM stereo is just fine. Your DVD writing software might convert the PCM to AC-3 anyway. Keep in mind also that there is a lot of flack going on with the pro's on the longevity of the 1x x 8x discs and also the 4x discs. It seems they are only certifying the 4x discs for 10years +. They will not certify the 8x discs at all because they use a different substrate. The gold substrate discs cost about 25 bucks apiece and they will certify those for 30 years. Another bunch of lies to get the consumer in the butt. Remember now that tapes last about 30 years.

JJK