question about soundstage

[joessportster]

here is something i have recently began to wonder about, i have done some extensive upgrading of the system have most of the new gear am waiting on the amps and tuner the system currently consists of blueberry pre amp, dynaco st 70, basis 1400 with a grado ref. sonata, and la scalas with newly rebuilt to spec AA Xovers, the speakers are about 11 feet apart setting in corners toed in at 45 degree, i set about 8 feet away centered, the room is about 11 feet by 20 feet (listening room and kitchen, seperated by a carpet strip) my observance has been that soundstage is really not all that good most time occassionally i will have decent soundstage but most of the time, you can tell the vocals are from the right or left i have a set of craigs vrd's on the way what contributes the most to getting good soundstage i am kind of limited in my room for setting the speakers a differant way and no way to get them out of the corners will th new amps help with this? Joe

[rplace]

Not having La Scalas I am not sure if this will help, but worth a try you will only be out your time. Before I got my Khorns I used Kg-4, Forte and Chorus. I never like them angled in 45 degrees. I got best results with them about a foot to 18 inches off of the back wall and angled slightly. No protractor or actual angle to give you but surely less then 45. Experiment a bit with different angles and distance from back wall.

Let me know if this helps, hurts or no effect.

[garymd]

Joe,

Do you remember how my cornwalls were angled? Hardly at all. I have them toed in about 10 to 15 degrees. Are your speakers on the long wall? That would be best also. Try to space them about 12 feet apart with room on either side and sit about the same distance from the speakers as they are spaced.

Not all albums are recorded so the voice is dead center either. The exact same amount of info must be coming from each channel to get a dead center soundstage. Adjust your Blueberry channel gain so you hear the voice from the center in your sweetspot using an LP you know has a center voice. That's the best way to make sure you're in balance.

Hope you understood all that. I sort of rushed through it.

- Gary

P.S. Call me anytime. I don't know how much help I can be but I'll try.

[greg928gts]

I have a pair of Cornwalls in a small room, and I find the best soundstage is with them up against the wall and not toed in at all. I'm sitting just 8' from the speakers and they are about 8' apart. I think if they were farther apart it would be even better. In that situation I might find toeing them in a little would be better.

Try moving the La Scalas to the long wall if they are not there already, and experiment with the toe angle, starting with them pointing straight out.

Greg

[thebes]

Hey Joe, you're getting some pretty good advice so far, not unusual here.

I've been in your room and I know the limitations you are working under. My own suggestion is to face them straight out, squeeze the one on the left a little farther along the wall if you can (if I recall correctly the one on the right has no more room to move) and bring them in and out from the wall until you find a comfortable spot. My own instinct with speakers is to push them closer together yet I learned the hard way that in actuality it's getting them farther apart that is usually the cure. It's my own personal preference, but with them straight out I get the feeling that the soundstage is wider than me, in other words some instruments are at the edges of my ears just like it would be if you were sitting center stage at a concert. You lose a small bit of depth, but greater instrument placement.

Take your time, don't worry yet, you've got plenty of time to tinker, and best yet that's a major part of the fun of this hobby.

As The Twins say to me all the time "you've got to find your own sweet spot".

Of course they also say: "when are you going to find ours!"

[NOSValves]

Joe,

Your room will have an effect on what will work best so there is no clear cut answer. I listen to my Lascalas near field and when seated in the sweat spot I am in a perfect 9' triangle with the Lascalas firing about a foot outside my ears. The sound staging is frighteningly good in my situation. The problem is each room reacts differently. What I would do is start lessoning the toe inch by inch using the back wall as a gage with a tape measure. Keep moving them until the voice becomes distinctly centered and the appropriate size as to seem real. Once it gets to this point keep going until it seems to again start to disappear. Then split the difference and you should be good to go. The way you have them now there firing in front of you which will indeed not be Idea. Just because Klipsch Horns are pointed 45 degrees out of the corner doesn't make it the best angle. This is the reason I would never own Khorns unless I had a room they would work properly in. The Lascala, Bell and Cornwall arte much more versatile in this respect.

Good Luck

Craig

[psg]

My room is 11' x 30', and I use about 11' x 18' of it for HT. My La Scala's were, for years, square into the corners of the 11' wall. I was happy; life is good. I had good soundstage but never disappearing speakers. Recently I tried to simulate khorns on the long wall (but not the entire length), 18' apart. Perfect! I posted about it recently:

http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=64918

Hope this helps... You might want to try it, even if it can't stay that way. It may tell you not to overspend on electronics if the room placement is the problem.

[KungFuNat]

my cornwalls are about 6' apart and i toe them in about 10 degrees.. but to do it right, you need a helper who will position the speakers while you sit in the listening position.

[joessportster]

thanks to all of you for your ideas, i will try some of these and see where it gets me Joe

[NOSValves]

A Hernia most likely!

[Piranha]

Buy Cornwalls and your problem will be solved. Right Craig?

[NOSValves]

Sure is if your into the Sawzall thingy

[Piranha]

I thought that's what he was trying to get rid of. He already has La Scala's.

[joessportster]

"HERNIA", good one craig, not sure how amtrack would like that new hiree calls in says hey guess what UUMMM i was moving my speakers and pulled a man berry, could you maybe excuse me a few weeks. i know its short notice but you understand right?

i had 2 pair of cornies and recently sold both to afford the new upgrades, i like the scalas a little better, i will put on a berry supporter and back brace and attempt the move

wish me luck Joe