Yesfan70 Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 As many of you know, I have been working on a custom center for my system. I want the enclosure to look like my KG5.5's medium oak finish. I was given a link by one of the folks at the S&V forums. Any of you all use GL Veeners for your projects? http://www.glveneer.com/index.html?id_glv=0513GL654161 Which of the oak veeners would you recommend for my project? Could I also use Titebond to glue it to the enclosure or is there something better suited for applying veneer? Appreciate the help. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmboydoug Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 Lots of folks swear by using the ironing method using Tightbond II. I use tightbond II for cabinent construction, but have never tried it for veneer adhesion. For veneering I use this... http://www.joewoodworker.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=737 ...which is specially formulated for ironing. It's a little spendy but works as well as any other glue I have seen used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 partsexpress has a lineup of iron on veneer as well (and glueable too). One of these days I'll get around to finishing my sub with some iron on veneer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesfan70 Posted May 14, 2005 Author Share Posted May 14, 2005 Appreciate the links fellows. Thanks. Another question (ok, really a two part question). I'm going to go for a "factory" look for this speaker. I already have all my panels cut out. I did a mock up build using clamps to see what it looks like. Looks like a bookshelf version of my KG5.5s that Klipsch might have made. I'm pretty happy with them. I noticed the KG line has oak veneer on the top, bottom, and sides, but the front/back panels are a 40 sheen black lacquer which I haven't had any luck finding (more on that). When you veneer, 1) do you wait until the enclosure is fully assembled with all the panels, 2) or do you assemble the panels that are to be veneered. In my case, that would be the top, bottom, and sides? As for the lacquer, I contacted Sherman-Williams, but I think for my project, that's going to be too expensive. The front and rear panels have a satin finish, which I have been told is a 40 sheen black laquer. Any of you all know some lesser expensive option I could do to keep the look I want? Btw, big "thank yous" to Steve Philips. I have gotten a lot of info from his emails when I first started on this. Thanks also to you guys and the folks at the S&V forums and the DIYaudio forums. I really appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 If you were in the business of making speakers (Klipsch) you'd buy plywood or MDF that was already veneered, then use mitre joints to assemble, voila- completed cabinet. If you're using oak, this is a pretty easy option, because oak veneered plywood is readily available. certainlywood.com is a company that sells many different types of high quality veneer that lots of the guys use. Or you can just build the box, then veneer it. Still use mitre joints if you can manage it, it makes neater corners and is more surface area for glue. Use the SEARCH function for veneer or cabinets, there's tons of 'how to' photos right here on the Forum, mostly under Modifications. Cueman and greg928s come to mind as two of our better cabinet guys so you might seek them out. Good luck! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 I think you will be more pleased with the results if the speaker is apart. They also make wood and paper backed veneers that can be contact cermented on. This is also a very good option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cueman Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 I don't know. Certainly if I had known I was going to veneer the La Scala's, I would have veneered the internals first. But I think if you veneered before assembling, you are going to have to be very, very careful when assembling. I mean, just think how many nicks and bruises the cabinet suffers during assembly (At least mine did, the bigger the speaker the harder) It will be a lot harder to repiair damage to the veneer than it would to the raw cabinet. I have never tried, so I don't know for sure, but it seems to me it would be easier to assemble first, then veneer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 Cue. I disassembled my Khorns then veneered and worked fantastic. Not a seam or gap showing. Just my opinion though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cueman Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 I was assuming the cabs were being built from scratch like i did. If you already have cabs and are going to disassemble them, as much as you can, then yes that is a different story. I can now easily see why most of these larger speakers made of plywood have nicks and pieces of the veneer lifting in places, especially on the bottom. Any little bump wreaks havoc since there is so much weight behind it. I was very careful when moving my LS's into the house with a dolly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 I have to say that I've been having a very difficult time with the iron-on method with Titebond II glue. Thanks to Doug for the link to joewoodworker, I've purchased some of that heat glue and a few other goodies. Man, they have the wildest veneer too. Huge sheets of figured veneer, wide enough to cover a La Scala with no joints! Amazing. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Greg I have them in my favorites. Have you purchased any veneer? The bag application method looks great but seems almost impossible with speakers unless taken apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 ---------------- On 5/15/2005 9:26:26 PM greg928s4 wrote: Thanks to Doug for the link to joewoodworker ---------------- Thumbs up to Doug from me too... looks like a good link, with more than average info about the products they sell. ---------------- On 5/16/2005 11:33:25 AM Dylanl wrote: The bag application method looks great but seems almost impossible with speakers unless taken apart. ---------------- I noticed people seem to swear by it on the woodworking forums... but I agree that it would be very difficult without disassembly. Even that may only work for a Khorn... but not really for a LaScala. Anyone experiment with it? Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texican58 Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 ---------------- On 5/15/2005 9:26:26 PM greg928s4 wrote: I have to say that I've been having a very difficult time with the iron-on method with Titebond II glue. Thanks to Doug for the link to joewoodworker, I've purchased some of that heat glue and a few other goodies. Man, they have the wildest veneer too. Huge sheets of figured veneer, wide enough to cover a La Scala with no joints! Amazing. Greg ---------------- Uh-oh, Greg, You've done some awesome work from what I've seen of your work and pix. GaryMD is certainly pleased, etc. Am I to understand that you're not so sure about the Titebond and ironing method anymore? IF so, I'm going to wait until other chime in with either a better glue product or method? Your suggestions? Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 When I was in a local woodworking supply house, they sold rolls of raw veneer in wide widths, both in birch and oak. These rolls would be wide enough to do a heresy, witout having to tape two pieces together. When I am in there again, I will check out the length of the roll, and the width, I thought that it was 20 or 22 inch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 I agree with Greg on the Titebond II issue. This method can yield some inconsistent results if the utmost care(and alot of elbow grease with a scraper or roller while still warm)is not taken, especially on large surfaces. I am getting ready to start a "from the ground up" refurb on a set of '78 Belles(oh crap, here we go again ),and am going to go back to Weldwood contact cement with this project. I am not planning on using Laquer as a finish of course. Unless you are using a backed veneer you can/will have a reaction(bubbling, checking, etc.)between your Laquer and the solvents/adhesives under the veneer. If you are using Raw unbacked veneer you are better off sticking with oils, polys, etc.. Just my .02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Button Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 Jorjen, Could you elaborate further on your last two sentences, please...?Are you referring to laminating the veneer over previously veneered surfaces or is this just a standard practice when using Lacquer, I'm confused... Thanks, BS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Hi BS, I had a situation about 8-10 years ago with a large desktop cigar humidor I made. I used raw, un-backed veneer and did not use a substrate between the veneer and the surface I was veneering because I was veneering cross-grain. Anyway, when I began shooting my MacLac Laquer finsih it was going down very nicely, looked like glass, which was my objective. Then after about an hour or two the whole thing went sideways. The Laquer started to check and wrinkle, similar in appearance to some auto finishes I have seen layed down over an improperly prepped body. So, I immediately thought my surface had been contaminated before I shot the Laquer. No big deal at this point, so I removed the Laquer, sanded and cleaned my surface and resealed it. Started laying the Laquer down again, and BANG, the same result. After fighting this problem for a week or two I decided to talk to a buddy more knowledgeable on this subject than I. He told me that the problem I was having was a reaction between the solvent in the contact cement I used to adhere the veneer and the Laquer itself and that I would never achieve the desired result because of this. So I wound up stripping the thing and using an oil finish and it looked great. And, I did learn a valuable lesson. When using a backed veneer you obviously will not have this problem due to the barrier between your veneer face and your substrate created by the backing. Granted, backed/sheet veneer can simplify the whole process in several ways. However, there is a small downside to using backed veneers as pointed out to me in the past by Greg. From a purely aesthetic standpoint, backed veneer seems to lack some of the the dimensionality and depth of grain of raw veneer. It lacks a little of the warmth that you get with raw veneer if that makes any sense. Hope this helps in some way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texican58 Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 ---------------- On 5/30/2005 10:01:56 AM jorjen wrote: Hi BS, I had a situation about 8-10 years ago with a large desktop cigar humidor I made. I used raw, un-backed veneer and did not use a substrate between the veneer and the surface I was veneering because I was veneering cross-grain. Anyway, when I began shooting my MacLac Laquer finsih it was going down very nicely, looked like glass, which was my objective. Then after about an hour or two the whole thing went sideways. The Laquer started to check and wrinkle, similar in appearance to some auto finishes I have seen layed down over an improperly prepped body. So, I immediately thought my surface had been contaminated before I shot the Laquer. No big deal at this point, so I removed the Laquer, sanded and cleaned my surface and resealed it. Started laying the Laquer down again, and BANG, the same result. After fighting this problem for a week or two I decided to talk to a buddy more knowledgeable on this subject than I. He told me that the problem I was having was a reaction between the solvent in the contact cement I used to adhere the veneer and the Laquer itself and that I would never achieve the desired result because of this. So I wound up stripping the thing and using an oil finish and it looked great. And, I did learn a valuable lesson. When using a backed veneer you obviously will not have this problem due to the barrier between your veneer face and your substrate created by the backing. Granted, backed/sheet veneer can simplify the whole process in several ways. However, there is a small downside to using backed veneers as pointed out to me in the past by Greg. From a purely aesthetic standpoint, backed veneer seems to lack some of the the dimensionality and depth of grain of raw veneer. It lacks a little of the warmth that you get with raw veneer if that makes any sense. Hope this helps in some way. ---------------- So, would your suggestion be to use a different type of glue (other than Titebond)? My veneer is non-backed. I want something that's going to adhere and stay that way. I'm also probably going to use some sort of oil for my finish (non-sprayed), just rubbed in...like BLO (boiled linseed oil). My critical part is getting the glue part right. Your thoughts? Mitch P.S. Thanks for the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Mitch, I used the Titebond II iron on method on a few projects, Cornwalls, Khorns and so on and it worked OK, but on the Belles I am getting ready to do I am going back to contact adhesive. I think Greg told me sometime back that he was going back to it as well. If you are going to use an oil finish you should not have any problems with Weldwood/other contact adhesives. I think overall, especially on large, flat surfaces(like the front of a Khorn)you will be pleased with this method. Remember to make sure you have your veneer where you want it though because once it is down, it is not going anywhere. Also keep in mind that when you use the Titebond method, once it cools completely, you can start trimming and working/sanding, etc. your edges without fear of delaminating or chipping. With the contact adhesive you really need to wait until it dries to work your edges. This can lenthen your project a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texican58 Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 ---------------- On 5/30/2005 12:21:04 PM jorjen wrote: Mitch, I used the Titebond II iron on method on a few projects, Cornwalls, Khorns and so on and it worked OK, but on the Belles I am getting ready to do I am going back to contact adhesive. I think Greg told me sometime back that he was going back to it as well. If you are going to use an oil finish you should not have any problems with Weldwood/other contact adhesives. I think overall, especially on large, flat surfaces(like the front of a Khorn)you will be pleased with this method. Remember to make sure you have your veneer where you want it though because once it is down, it is not going anywhere. Also keep in mind that when you use the Titebond method, once it cools completely, you can start trimming and working/sanding, etc. your edges without fear of delaminating or chipping. With the contact adhesive you really need to wait until it dries to work your edges. This can lenthen your project a bit. ---------------- Jordan, Thanks for the information. Patience is not a problem If the Weldwood contact cement is a better option for adherance, that's what I want. I have no problem waiting for it to dry. Best regards....and thanks....Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.