skonopa Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 ---------------- On 6/7/2005 12:27:47 PM fmushkin wrote: Here's an interesting article about some surround speaker listening tests: http://www.hometheatermag.com/loudspeakers/25/index.html (I made it an active link - ssk) ---------------- Very interesting indeed. Where the heck was this back a couple years ago with all the heated "dipole vs monopole" debates that erupted on here? . There was one older gentlman (who seemed to be pretty well off as well from what I gathered, always talking about his "retreat" and so forth) that was a staunch advocate for the same monopole speaker all the way around (I am certain many of you "old-timers" remember him). Would've loved to shown him that article! I personally have dipoles on the side (RS-7s) with a single monopole in the rear (RC-7). Not an "ideal" setup according to that article (nor is it according to the "same all the way around" purists either), but I like it and it works perfectly for me and the size/shape of the room I am in. It seems the dipole/monopole debate pretty much comes down to personal preference. Get what you think sounds good (and what will fit in your space and budget). To get back to the original question. According to Klipsch themselves, the ideally matched setup with the Fortes would be the Academy in the center and the Quartets in the surrounds. Unfortunatly, those speakers can be difficult to find, but they do pop up in the used market from time to time. It seems patience and good timing will eventually get you those speakers. My guess to why so rare is that at the time those speakers where introduced, HT was still in its infancy and not too many people would've splurged on such a setup. Now that HT is more common, many of those folks now want to press thier tried-n-true Fortes/Corouses into HT service and the sudden demand for those other speakers. However, if not want to hassle with trying to find these particular speakers, then I'd have to agree with the others that the KG 2.2 or so would make a fine substitute (although I cannot comment directly on performance as I have never heard these nor the Fortes myself). If you prefer a dipole type surround, than I would suggest one of the larger Reference RS-series speakers, at least the RS-35. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 I have had a good bit of experience with Forte IIs in home theater and have tried several combinations using Quartets and even KG 2.5s. I wouldn't screw around trying to buy an over priced Academy and I wouldn't settle for another center "specific" speaker. Buy another pair of Forte IIs or a pair of Quartets. Use one for your center because either is a better match than anything else. Sell the extra and when you can add another pair of Forte IIs or Quartets for surrounds, do it. Frzninvt is absolutely correct about the surrounds and if youre picky, why the heck screw around. In the meantime, use any thing you have for surrounds. It's those three speakers up front that will put you in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 My experience is similar to Boomac's, but I do differ on one opinion. I'll get to that later. I haven't had a lot of experience with the Forte II. That's a lie -- I've never heard one. I do, however, own orginal Fortes and Chorus IIs, so I can relate to the Forte II sound. My system has gone through a lot of iterations. From 2.0 to 2.1 with Heresys, to 3.1 by adding an Academy and rapidly back to 2.1 because of the poor match, to 5.1 with Fortes, Academy, and Heresys pulling surround, to 4.1 with Heresys in all the corners, and finally to my current and best yet, Chorus IIs, Academy, and Quartets at the rear. Now I can stop for a while. Why so many changes getting to this point? Because I could never get a sound that was satisfactory to me with mixed speakers. The centerless Heresy system was okay, but I came across something better before I could come up with a custom job for the Heresy. More on that later, too. Now for what you have, I don't consider the Academy to be overpriced at all for what it is. It is the only small form factor speaker that voice matches the Chorus (II)/Forte (II)/Quartet family. Every system entails compromises, and I'd rather compromise on the cost of the center than the quality of its fit into the system. That's just me. Other people will tell me I'm wrong. Oh well, they their systems and their priorities, and I have mine. Neither is "right" or better than the other, just different. I do think Boomac is right on in his assertion that the three up front will get you in the right direction. Again just my opinion, but I think "in the right direction" is really all it gets you, though. If I were in your shoes I'd hold out for some Quartet surrounds and do what you have to to get an Academy. Of course if you have the space to use a tower up front, there is no way to go wrong with a Quartet up there. Most people can't really do that, though. A few weeks ago I got my Quartets and Academy together for $650. Not a screaming good, "Oh my God, you stole those speakers!" deal, but one I consider to be pretty good. I checked craigslist every day for four months to do it, and was a little lucky in my response time to the ad. What I'm really saying is that if you are patient and diligent and a little fortunate, you'll find just what you need for what you're willing and able to pay -- maybe even less. Fun and good luck to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Olorin, If the speakers are in reasonable or better condition I'd consider that a screaming great deal. I paid $650 for my Forte IIs alone but who cares the way they sound! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I know that the general wisdom here is that Heresys dont match to Fortes but I have stock Forte1s as my mains and the modified Heresy 1 as a center and honestly, I may be deaf but I really dont hear much difference except for the bass. I have played 7 ch stereo music and switched off the mains and kept the Heresy center on, the match was good. In HT mode, the front 3 speakers are seamless. I have Heresy 2s that are going to pull duty as rear surrounds with the other modded Heresy 1 as the #6 in 6.1 Again, I guess it is possible that I am tone deaf (I doubt it) but it sounds good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Yea, this all may be nit-pickin' but I do believe that having three like speakers makes a difference. Ya have to have the space though and that's usually a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Cal, it's great that it works for you. I find the Heresy to be more aggressive than the Forte and the Forte to be more finely detailed than the Heresy. I think each is great on it's own, but I also think that, used together in an HT environment, each takes something away from the other. I don't recommend it for two reasons. One is that difference in sound. Matched systems just sound better in ways that can be very subtle. For example, when I used the Heresys for surrounds, I noticed the surrounds. With Quartets back there, I don't notice the surrounds. What I notice is a seamless and enveloping sound field. The other reason I don't recommend it has to do with cost. Everybody here is a tweaker to one extent or another, and most aren't going to stop until it's "right." I've spent a bunch of time and money trying things to get it "right," and I've found that "right" for me requires matched speakers all the way around. That's what I recommend to people who are now at the same stage of the journey I was a year ago -- go straight to matched speakers all around. Feel free to ignore me -- waste your money in whatever way you feel is best. Nah, that's a little harsh. Some people are going to be less bothered by the differences than I am, and more power to them. If you are one who picks those things up, though, it's going to be cheaper and more quickly satisfying to just skip right to the matched setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted June 10, 2005 Moderators Share Posted June 10, 2005 You guys don't know how much this tread has helped answer some of my questions just getting forte ll. Forte ll for center or academy what would be your choice. Chorus ll for mains or forte ll with the rest forte ll and or academy. Just want to do it right this time and it will take time to hunt them down, want to be sure what i am hunting for and not trying to make up my mind at the last minute. thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 ---------------- On 6/10/2005 11:13:44 AM Olorin wrote: Cal, it's great that it works for you. I find the Heresy to be more aggressive than the Forte and the Forte to be more finely detailed than the Heresy. I think each is great on it's own, but I also think that, used together in an HT environment, each takes something away from the other. I don't recommend it for two reasons. One is that difference in sound. Matched systems just sound better in ways that can be very subtle. For example, when I used the Heresys for surrounds, I noticed the surrounds. With Quartets back there, I don't notice the surrounds. What I notice is a seamless and enveloping sound field. The other reason I don't recommend it has to do with cost. Everybody here is a tweaker to one extent or another, and most aren't going to stop until it's "right." I've spent a bunch of time and money trying things to get it "right," and I've found that "right" for me requires matched speakers all the way around. That's what I recommend to people who are now at the same stage of the journey I was a year ago -- go straight to matched speakers all around. Feel free to ignore me -- waste your money in whatever way you feel is best. Nah, that's a little harsh. Some people are going to be less bothered by the differences than I am, and more power to them. If you are one who picks those things up, though, it's going to be cheaper and more quickly satisfying to just skip right to the matched setup. ---------------- Olorin, as you may recall, I used to be one that was skeptical about the necessity of matched speakers.....up to even recently .....but the more and more I try to get my system where I want it, the more and more I have to conclude that timbre-matching as close as possible is best. At least for music. Your comments about aggressive speakers is dead on. As much as I have tried to make my current setup work for music in 5.1 (Belle, Vert. Cornwall, Belle, RF-7, RF-7) - even spread out in a huge room - I can hear both that the Cornwall does not match properly to the Belles and my RF-7s (which are more aggressive than any other speaker in the room) distract me from the rear. Unfortunately, in my case, speakers from the Reference line simply cannot co-exist in the same room as other Klipsch speakers. My experience and opinion now, for what it is worth, is to timbre-match your front, and find rears that are close or perfectly-matched (to the front) as possible. If such rears are not possible, go with less aggressive speakers in the rear. The way our hearing and brain process sounds from the rear - that seems to work best. My remedy for my system above is already in the works. Stay tuned. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 ---------------- On 6/10/2005 1:17:33 PM dtel wrote: You guys don't know how much this tread has helped answer some of my questions just getting forte ll. Forte ll for center or academy what would be your choice. Chorus ll for mains or forte ll with the rest forte ll and or academy. Just want to do it right this time and it will take time to hunt them down, want to be sure what i am hunting for and not trying to make up my mind at the last minute. thanks ---------------- Go with a Forte II or Quartet center if you have the space. If you don't have the space, make it. Chorus IIs are excellent speakers but the Forte II / Quartet match is much closer than Chorus IIs and Forte IIs. Now that you have the Forte IIs, stick with either all Forte IIs or a mixture of Forte IIs and Quartets. Go to the Klipsch homepage and click on products - discontinued - floorstanding - Chorus II, Forte II and Quartet. Click on specs and compare. You'll see what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbash Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Well I don't have the space for Forte center but I have made a purchase of KG 2.5 for the effects due to size but still need to find an Academy center in Oak if anyone has one or a line on one please let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 If it's not too late, I'll throw a few thoughts in. I would have to agree with everyone who has mentioned timbre-matching. It's an amazing thing that you don't really grasp until you try it out. I started out with Forte II/KV-3/KG 1.2 in a ProLogic system and was very pleased. Went to a DD receiver and "upgraded" to a KV-4 and then to the Academy. Never looked back on the center channel from there. I did a big review of those three center channel speakers several years ago, and you may still be able to find in in the HT forum, titled "Center channel shootout" or something to that effect. Academy/Forte II is a great match. If you can't find an Academy, a KV-3 will do pretty good, and these are up on eBay with some regularity. Now that I've got Chorus II/Academy/Forte II/KG 1.2 in a 7.1 system, I'm very pleased. Next up to try is a Chorus II center which I hope to do over the summer. I think that three of those monsters across the front sound stage will be incredible. You have the start of a nice system. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbash Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 I appreciate your advise. I have purchased Klipsch KG 2.2 however I need to find Academy in Oak if you have any ideas where I may find one or is the klf c7 a suitable substitute. Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbash Posted June 25, 2005 Author Share Posted June 25, 2005 Gang one more question about the center channel would the KLF c7 match the Forte II w/KG 2.2 rear effects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krustyoldsarge Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 I'm using ChorusII's up front and KG4's in the rear, basically because I already had the KG4's when I purchased the Chorus. Good Klipsch is tough to find in Korea, so after looking for five years, I jumped on the Chorus. You take what you can find here. They sounded okay together until I upgraded the 2uf caps in the Chorus(the KG4's had already been upgraded). Now they sound great together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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